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The Myth of Polish Cavalry Charging Against Panzers

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DerJoachim

Member
Well, school and colleges are not a good source of historic information, expecially when they are the college of the victors.

Infact, every nation have somehow a different history teached at school, depending on which "block" they belong.
 

FlyingR

Member
Well, school and colleges are not a good source of historic information, expecially when they are the college of the victors.

Infact, every nation have somehow a different history teached at school, depending on which "block" they belong.

Indeed, the thing is that this myth is widely spread and people still believe it (even the Poles).

BTW, long time no see :D
 

VonMudra

Well-known member
Gonna have to write something more in length when I get up. Basically the article is right on the broad strokes (Poles didn't charge German tanks) but gets a shitton of the details wrong. I did my MA and am trying to do my PhD on this subject. In fact, my thesis on this subject is being peer reviewed for publication with the Journal of Slavic Military Studies. So I know quite a bit on this.

Also, yes, often various universities (especilaly those in the new wave of Russian nationalist schools) can be wrong, but broadly, western universities are very very good on history, and do NOT simply write 'victor's' history. In fact the trend in the USA is strongly towards disenfranchised histories, to the point at which it is nearly impossible now to get PhD funding for anything else.
 

VonMudra

Well-known member
Ok, so I'm just gonna begin with a copy paste here from a few posts I made on this topic in the Hearts of Iron IV forums (before the game came out). Do note, these are like 4 DIFFERENT posts from the same thread (discussing Polish tech trees in game), but I feel that they should give you a good idea of where I am coming from and what I am talking about. After this I will make a post in response to the article and its flaws/misconceptions.:


As a historian of Poland (have MA, and am pursuing PhD), and specifically the 1939 campaign and its mythos, I have to respectfully disagree. The Polish cavalry in the 1939 campaign were responsible for numerous defensive victories against the German tank corps. They were anything but wiped out- in fact, it was more the German Panzer divisions that were being wiped out. After about the first 2 weeks of ground combat, the German tank divisions were at half or even 1/3 strength, and most of their losses had come from the Polish cavalry and their anti-tank rifles and guns. If you honestly believe that Polish cavalry just charged willy-nilly at German tanks with swords and lances, you are GRAVELY mistaken.

Basically, my MA thesis, and future PhD work, is focused on how the various myths about the 1939 campaign were created and disseminated throughout the world until they became an entrenched dogma in both popular culture and amoung much of the military history establishment. While those myths have been refuted (like Polish military backwardness, cavalry charging tanks, air force destroyed on the ground, etc etc) in more specialized history circles, the wider historical establishment, and pop-culture, still cling on to them. I explore not only how those myths were created during World War II by both German AND Allied propagandists, but also how they continue to plague the historical record after the war. Much of my PhD work on the topic will be expanding on that discussion, getting into a serious look at how humanity wishes to romanticize and imagine history as they believe it was or ought to be, trouncing reality in their wake. All of this is, of course, framed around the 1939 campaign as an arch-type of a historical mythos.


Actually, you make a very valid point on the views on Poland in the USA, nauticalweasel. There is an excellent paper, Hollywood and the Poles, that analyzes how Hollywood treated Poland during the Second World War when compared to other allied nations. To summarize in brief, where other nations like France/Czechoslovakia/Norway were treated with dignity, honour, etc. the Poles were a bunch of hyper-nationalistic, outdated sods who were really brave but otherwise foolish and bumbling.

Sir Garnet- the France issue is yet another case of what I am studying with Poland- the mythologization of history to what our preconcepts are, rather than reality. In studying Poland I have to admit I use that as I am mostly focusing my work on Eastern European history (I'm also looking at researching into Austro-Hungarian economic history, LGBT rights in the Polish Second Republic, Polish Manifest Destiny and Colonization in the Borderlands, etc), so the 1939 Campaign is simply the perfect maelstrom for me to wade in to when it comes to the evaluation of historical mythos. There are, of course, many other examples that are being tackled by a plethora of other historians. Some of the most recent ones that come to mind are the current demolishing of the BEF's performance in 1914 (see The Mons Myth and the more recent Challenge of Battle), the myth of France in WW2 that you just stated, German casualty figures for WW1, re-examinations of the Russian and Balkan Fronts in WW1 (there is a growing number of historians, a group I have to lean towards, that is saying that WW1 was won in the Balkan Front, not the Western Front), etc etc. Revisionism (as in, the actual school of historical revisionism, NOT negationism: Historical revisionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) is on an upswing on WW1 and WW2 most apparently due to time distance, a new crop of historians who are being far more questioning of official national histories, and the most recent file declassification and archival openings. In fact, the Cold War ending is the number one reason the Polish campaign has come under so much revisionism in the past 20 or so years, and has led to the general acceptance in the Polish historical community that the history we were taught about the campaign for the past 60, 70 years was a mixture of bold-faced lies and make believe meant to fill in the blanks where there were no accessible documents.


Also, allow me to give a simple, but very poignant, example of what I am talking about (heavily, HEAVILY paraphrased research here btw). Germany entered Poland with AROUND ~2200 tanks, total. Counting tanks that simply never went to combat or were in training depots or such, they had around~2000 tanks total in the entire campaign- this is all according to actual German documents and figures about their own military. During the war, the Allies estimated that the Germans had around 3500 tanks in Poland, anywhere from 5-8,000 in France, and 14,000 for Barbarossa (Germany peaked at around 4,500 tanks for Barbarossa in actuality). After the war, West Point's published history on the Polish campaign stated, and I quote, "Germany had about 6,000 tanks." Meanwhile, it was reported in many circles, right up to the present day, that the Poles knocked out between 125 and 200 German tanks. However, modern research of German loss figures, tank repair depot documents, and Polish divisional reports on knocked out and abandoned German tanks, show a quite more startling story. All told, the Poles knocked out, in combat, around 1400 German tanks, give or take. Roughly half of those were knocked out in combat by the cavalry arm, the rest being by infantry, tanks, and the air force. Of the ~1400, ~850 were unable to be put back into the field due to extensive damage. Quite a different story, which also jives with divisional on-hand tank documents. For instance, 4th Panzer Division started the campaign with around 341 tanks. By the time they reached Warsaw on Sept 8th, they had around 220 tanks. By the time they were pulled out of the line due to attrition on September 19th, they had around 80 tanks. All the other Panzer divisions report similar losses, and were pulled out in turn, due them reaching combat ineffective states. To put it bluntly- had Poland not been invaded by the USSR, there was a very good chance they would have held out in a Romanian bridgehead scenario for at least a couple more months, as the Germans would not have had any combat-capable Panzer divisions left. Also, in the same amount of time, fully 1/4 of the Luftwaffe that had been committed to Poland had been shot down, some 100-200 by the Polish air force, the rest by the surprisingly well equipped Polish AA units. On the Hel Peninsula alone, Polish AA gunners accounted for over 80 German aircraft.
 
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VonMudra

Well-known member
Now, let's get into what's right about the article. One needs to remember first and foremost, warhistoryonline.com is NOT an academic source. I repeat, it is NOT an academic source. I see it posted occasionally around Facebook and such, and it often is very pop-history- IE, consumption for the masses, gets broad stroke facts right mostly, but loses its touch when going into detail/explanation because these articles are basically being written by random fans on the site, NOT historians.

What it gets right:

Polish cavalry never charged German tanks.

Colonel Mastalerz and his staff were killed by armoured cars after an successful charge on infantry on Sept 1st 1939.

Indro Montanelli, an award winning Italian journalist, is the origin point of the myth, after German officers told him the dead horses at Krojanty were killed in a charge by Polish cavalry on tanks.

Nazi propaganda did indeed support the idea, as it fell neatly into their view of the Poles as slavic untermensch who were brave but idiots and easily defeated. Soviet post-war propaganda also did love the myth as it helped to discredit the pre-war Polish government. (what the article does not mention is that the Allies, specifically France and Britain, ate up the myth too, as it helped to excuse them for their failings in 1939 and for their defeat in 1940- can't be defeated in 1940 yet have the Poles defeating the Germans many many times in 1939, can we?)

Gunther Grass did actually write that poem.

Now, let's go over what the article gets wrong:

Before all hell broke loose, it was obvious that the Germans were aiming to end Polish sovereignty.

Nope. The Germans actually courted the Poles until 1939 for an alliance- right up to the end they were promising the Poles an alliance against the Soviets, land from Lithuania to replace Danzig, etc. The Poles refused to back down on the corridor, however.

The answer lies in the restrainments of the Treaty of Versaille from 1919, which explicitly prohibited the use of tanks by the German Army. Hitler violated this agreement, but the Poles refused to believe it.

First of all, they spelt Versailles wrong. But more to the point- THIS IS PART OF THE MYTHOS. An article purporting to be breaking this myth, is actually word for word USING part of the myth as factual. The idea that the Poles did not believe or understand that the Germans had rearmed post-Versailles is one of the explanations commonly given for why Polish cavalry charged German tanks with sword and lance- specifically that they believed the tanks were 'dummy' tanks made of wood/cardboard for training.

This is WRONG. This is factually incorrect. The Polish military had gone so far as to have actual JOINT TRAINING EXERCISES with the German army as late as 1938. There was not a man alive who didn't believe the Germans had lots of tanks. Good lord, the Germans were INCREDIBLY open about their re-armament, it was one of the largest make-work policies put into action by the Nazis. They paraded them all over the place, they used them in Spain, they were NOT a secret. The Poles knew damn well what the Germans had, and prepared their plans accordingly. There was NO misunderstanding about it, there was no "oh they're just made from cardboard".

The 18th Pomeranian Uhlans spotted a group of German infantry resting at a railroad near the village. Colonel Kazimir Mastalerz, the commander of the Uhlans, ordered Eugeniusz Świeściak, commander of the 1st Squadron, to use the element of surprise. He was ordered to charge at the Germans, with his horsemen, who were mostly equipped with lances. The two other squadrons, which included the TKS/TK-3 tankettes as support, were held in reserve.

The initial charge proved to be successful. The German infantry dispersed as the Uhlans chased them across the field. But then, German armored vehicles (most likely Leichter Panzerspähwagen or Schwerer Panzerspähwagen) joined the fight, advancing through the nearby forest. They fired a machine gun barrage which decimated the Polish horsemen. Commander Świeściak was gunned down. Colonel Mastalerz hurried to his aid, prompting the second two squadrons to advance. He was killed soon after by the same armored vehicles.

So this is a case of broad strokes right, but details wrong. Basically, what it gets right is that the Poles surprised a group of German infantry with a charge, but then were surpised in turn and lost a lot of men.

But it's wrong on details (a lot of this is thanks them using only wikipedia as their example, almost word for word). The Uhlans actually had found a full battalion of Germans encamped in a clearing near a railroad, not on it. Mastalerz worked his cavalry within around 100 yards of the Germans, screening their movements with a hill line. They executed their charge, and were extremely successful, the German battalion was basically captured intact apart from the ones who died in initial resistance. There was then a pause, as the Poles started to round up POWs and wounded, and began to escort them to the rear. Then, suddenly, a couple Sdkfz armoured cars, probably 222's, appeared from the treeline behind the clearing (the Germans had actually been awaiting their arrival pending further advance). The Poles were in turn ambushed, and Mastalerz, Świeściak, and their staff were killed in the initial volley, while the rest of the Polish cavalry retreated over the hills and escaped. There was no second charge by the remaining reserve squads- the Poles disappeared as soon as they arrived.

So what it gets wrong is that is downplays the size of the German unit (a group is far less than a battalion of around 800-1000 men), it claims them as dispersed (they were captured), and then seems to say the Uhlans were chasing the Germans across the field when they were shot at (actually were milling around and gathering the POWs up- leaving themselves vulnerable). It then claims they counter-charged the armoured cars (hey, there's that myth telling again!), when they actually fell back quickly after the initial volley of 20mm fire (which explains their heavy losses- 20mm cannons will do quite a number on cluster horses).

The Poles were able to outmaneuver the German Panzers, and strike the supporting infantry from the rear, leaving the tanks unguarded. On 15 different occasions, the Polish Uhlans managed to stage charges, cover the retreating friendly units and cause panic and confusion within the enemy. Even though the lance stopped being part of the official cavalry arsenal in 1937, it was still available as a weapon of choice. The traditional long spear was often decorated with a small Polish flag and was thus seen as a motivation tool, besides from being an effective weapon against infantry.

This happened once, during the Battle of Mokra, where German tanks outpaced their infantry and the Poles put in a flank charge that wiped out the German infantry, while the tanks moved on unsupported to be cut down by the Polish cavalry's anti-tank defenses. This is the only case I have found of a coordinated charge to wipe out supporting German infantry separated from German tanks. There were around 2 dozen Polish cavalry charges in the campaign, of which all but 2 were victorious. All but that one at Mokra and the one at Krojanty were made on infantry unsupported by any form of armoured vehicle. The lance was not decorated with a flag in combat- that was a parade ground thing like it had always been since the days of Napoleon. It WAS optional, but by and large was unused- the few that were did see combat though, at Krojanty and a few other engagements (notably a charge in East Prussia that led to the destruction of a German motorized battalion that is very well documented, one of the Polish participants became a Doctor of History in the United States after the war). Of note is that the last cavalry versus cavalry actions where both sides remained mounted also happened during this campaign, two incidents occurred in which German cavalry charged Polish cavalry (and were defeated).

. They also wanted to point out how superior the German people were in compared with primitive Poles who still used horses in battle even though the time of cavalry had certainly passed.

As noted above, the Germans had cavalry in 1939, both organic to division, and an independent cavalry brigade. By 1940 that was increased to a division, and by 1943/44, the Germans were operating a couple corps of cavalry. The idea that cavalry had passed by WW2 is kinda dead when you consider the Germans did nothing but INCREASE their use of cavalry during the war, plus the Russians used the **** out of it, having fully mounted ARMIES of Cossacks on the front lines through 1945.

The Poles saw the myth as part of their mentality ― bravery against all odds, and adopted the story proudly and defiantly.

No, they didn't. In fact, the adoption of the myth by the Poles after the war is a product of what the article later states- Soviet Propaganda. The myth is reviled in Poland as it makes them look like idiots.


Now, the article also has glaring flaws in that it completly omits any discussion of what the Polish cavalry actually DID during the war. As I stated above in those posts, the Polish cavalry were NOT an anti-infantry force. They were, in fact, trained and used as an anti-tank fire brigade, meant to plug holes made by the Panzer divisions. The Polish cavalry fought almost exclusively as an anti-Panzer division force during the war, and pre-war had been lavishly equipped with anti-tank guns and rifles. This is possibly another way the myth originates- the Polish cavalry were almost always fighting against the German Panzers, so it was easy to conclude that "lol wai they use swords on tanks THEY STUPID."


If you have any furthur questions, please feel free to ask. I have probably missed some points/details, it's early and I'm tired.
 
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FlyingR

Member
Thanks for the info Mudra, that was a great read. Cheers mate.
It definitely made [MENTION=2186]mmiedzianyy[/MENTION] happy! :D

BTW, there are a few people here that play HOI 4, would be great to play together :)
 

Aniallator

Member
Always love to read the historical tidbits you post, and... wow! What a wealth of information :) And I love hearing about events of the Polish campaign, it's incredibly overlooked and most people would rather hear about Stalingrad or Normandy.
 
[MENTION=147]VonMudra[/MENTION] Excellent write-up. More history should be about debunking tenacious myths such as this one. I hope your bid for the PhD goes well.

Also, I can't resist asking: will we get cavalry if and when we get to Poland 1939?
 

VonMudra

Well-known member
If and when we ever get to Poland in the dark distant future before I die, I will make sure there are cavalry in some form.
 

Aniallator

Member
Honestly, if I could snap my fingers and have TW set in the Polish campaign or the battle of France, I would xD
 

FlyingR

Member
If and when we ever get to Poland in the dark distant future before I die, I will make sure there are cavalry in some form.

Oh, Chapter 98 won't be out in this life-time for sure. You'll have to die 5 times before you see the Polish campaign.
 

Flare

Member
Vanguard Backer
I know all about waiting!

"Two weeks, be sure" - Ilya, 1C, 2011.

God, Cliffs of Dover was a mess on release.
 
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