What compass directions to use?

[Aniallator]

Thought I'd create a thread to discuss this in more detail.

There are really three ways of implementing compass directions; cardinal directions, clock directions, and compass degrees. The current HUD utilizes compass degrees.

Compass degrees are the most specific form of compass directions, but not the most realistic. Cardinal and clock directions are less specific, but more realistic. So, is it better to have more specific compass degrees for gameplay reasons, or add a bit more immersion and use cardinal or clock directions? Also, while compass degrees are more specific (for example, saying "Contact 340!" as opposed to "Contact northwest!"), they aren't as easy to say. You can discern what cardinal or clock direction you're pointed at faster than what compass degree, because they are less specific, so utilizing one of the former two systems means you can call out directions faster.

 

[General Naga]

It might be worth explaining the differences between Compass, Cardinal & Clock directions in more details for people in the community who haven't used all three

 

[Aniallator]

It might be worth explaining the differences between Compass, Cardinal & Clock directions in more details for people in the community who haven't used all three

Of course! Cardinal directions refer to the four cardinal points on a compass (north, south, east, and west) as well as sub-points like northwest or southeast. Clock directions of course refer to the hour positions on a 12-hour clock to indicate directions (like twelve o'clock to refer to straight ahead, or nine o'clock to refer to direct left). Compass degrees refer to the 360 degrees on a compass, shown in the current HUD as multiples of 20 to avoid clutter.

 

[mmiedzianyy]

Interesting thread Ani. I think it's worth to be discussed. Games use different ways of showing directions.. But if i would be in a danger situation i would rather shout north or northeast than: "enemy! 128' 34" !"
Let's discuss!

 

[General Naga]

Well the accuracy gets steadily worse as you go from "Enemy 030" to "Enemy NNE" or "Enemy 2 o'clock". If you're talking about 2 o'clock is that from your perspective? or theirs? or orientated north? There's a lot of room for confusion but a bearing is always accurate.

It also depends on the situation. The further you are from the action the more accurate you are likely to be with your call in my experience. When it gets intense not many people are calling bearings.

 

[drummer93]

No you can't use clock directions because it depends on your relative position. Remember that in a dogfight you say "at your six", that it could be or not your same "six". I mean, it depends on your front direction. Front direction: 12, back: 6, left: 9, etc....

 

[FlyingR]

Well the accuracy gets steadily worse as you go from "Enemy 030" to "Enemy NNE" or "Enemy 2 o'clock". If you're talking about 2 o'clock is that from your perspective? or theirs? or orientated north? There's a lot of room for confusion but a bearing is always accurate.

It also depends on the situation. The further you are from the action the more accurate you are likely to be with your call in my experience. When it gets intense not many people are calling bearings.

The thing is that nobody ever, in a firefight, held a compass and yelled "Enemy 030" while shooting. I don't know how the actual clock system worked, if it is in your "6" or in everybody's "6" just like the Cardinal compass. If we added like a "numerical compass" from 1-12 rather than the bearings it could make it more realistic. Of course this is where the devs have to see how to play between realism and gameplay.

In my opinion, I would like to have a "clock compass" and additionally you could press a button to show the compass to see the direction where you are going. I prefer realism and immersion rather than having an easier gameplay.

 

[General Naga]

Depends on the range though? At short range a bearing is next to useless but if you're asking someone to spot something in the distance a bearing is going to be far quicker.

 

[Aniallator]

While I wouldn't mind a compass degree system like we have now, I think I'd prefer cardinal directions. For one thing, it's more realistic and easier/faster, plus if you want to indicate something more specific you'd ideally reference landmarks. For example, "There's a sniper northwest, on the second floor of the café." Perhaps the devs can test different compass direction system in-game some time?

 

[FlyingR]

Depends on the range though? At short range a bearing is next to useless but if you're asking someone to spot something in the distance a bearing is going to be far quicker.

That is a good point, that's why (in my scenario), there would also be a compass, so for pointing and spotting for further range you check compass with map. After all, it is WWII, spotting wasn't as as accurate as it would be today right?

 

[drummer93]

mmm this is difficult to discuss. Maybe the most realistic option is eliminate the compass HUD and make one that you use if you press a key. But it could be difficult to coordinate. Remember that the players are not real soldiers (not all), and they not are trained as a combat unit (it could be), and we don't know things about mapping , reconnaissance, positioning , etc. I mean, it could be great make a simulator, but that is difficult to new players, or casual players. I will ask some friends of mine that are in the air force. Maybe they could give me some idea that the devs can implement

 

[FlyingR]

mmm this is difficult to discuss. Maybe the most realistic option is eliminate the compass HUD and make one that you use if you press a key. But it could be difficult to coordinate. Remember that the players are not real soldiers, and they not are trained as a combat unit (it could be), and we don't know things about mapping , reconnaissance, positioning , etc. I mean, it could be great make a simulator, but that is difficult to new players, or casual players. I will ask some friends of mine that are in the air force. Maybe they could give me some idea that the devs can implement

Yeah, it's hard to make it realistic while maintaining it relatively simple for everybody. It is already implemented in TW where you press an option and a map, compass, ammo, etc appear. Checking map and compass is not that hard, it is done in PR.

 

[Aniallator]

I think the small HUD compass needs to stay, though I could see having a physical compass that players pull out as well. Perhaps the HUD compass uses cardinal directions, while the physical compass (on top of, obviously, cardinal directions) has compass degrees, as any compass would.

 

[Swaffy]

I think this WWII compass image will help us all figure out how boots on the ground looked at things back then:



Detail:

 

[Aniallator]

Yes, IMO we ought to have a physical compass like this in-game that the player can pull out to reference directions by degrees.

 

[FlyingR]

Yes, IMO we ought to have a physical compass like this in-game that the player can pull out to reference directions by degrees.

Yes, you should be able to open the compass when you are walking or just moving as well as when you open the map.

 

[Mikeo]

I think it'd be best to have either,

- A physical map and compass pulled out at the same time

or

- Press a key that would display the map and compass (not physical)

I also prefer just a compass pointing north and people use Northeast and what not. I agree that not being as precise is more realistic an enjoyable.


There's a WWII source mod I play called Resistance and Liberation that I absolutely love. They use no HUD, instead anything needs to be brought up by keys, so you have to press M for map, which you cannot sprint while looking at. B for belt, to check grenades and ammo. Etc.

They used to use a physical map in alpha days that players would pull out, but switched to one that you can just pull up.

 

[Veers]

I think it'd be best to have either,

- A physical map and compass pulled out at the same time

or

- Press a key that would display the map and compass (not physical)

I also prefer just a compass pointing north and people use Northeast and what not. I agree that not being as precise is more realistic an enjoyable.


There's a WWII source mod I play called Resistance and Liberation that I absolutely love. They use no HUD, instead anything needs to be brought up by keys, so you have to press M for map, which you cannot sprint while looking at. B for belt, to check grenades and ammo. Etc.

They used to use a physical map in alpha days that players would pull out, but switched to one that you can just pull up.

I'd prefer a physical map+compass over the other option. More realistic than a magical map and compass *poof*ing onto your screen.

And the B for belt; really nice idea, it'll be great if they implemented that into TW. *wink wink*

 

[sHaKeNbAkE]

Well guys after fours years as an Airborne Ranger with the 3/75 I would like to shed a little light on this topic. Okay so first off nobody in the infantry pulls out a compass when they are in a firefight or/and take fire...just doesn't happen. Compasses were generally used for navigation and maybe some long distance target referencing....or to give a general direction the enemy may be in.

How does it work when you make contact? Well it's really simple actually....

1. All basic infantry move in platoons/squads and they orientate themselves based off their squad leaders and team leaders.
2. While moving their direction of travel is always 12:00....BOOM!!
3. Contact is made! At that moment the clock is used to give out the direction of the enemy based on the direction your squad was moving and the distance as well.
4. Sounds like this....contact is made...entire squad hits the ground and usually one or more will yell out "Contact 3:00 (right flank) 300 meters!!"
5. Everyone turns 45 degrees to the right where 3:00 would be located on the clock.

This only works if you have VOIP/coms and you are working with a cohesive squad. So again, when/if contact is made it would not be realistic to reach in your belt and pull out a compass to tell people the direction...you probably would die during the process.

What works pretty well in most "realistic" shooters is a small reference compass on the screen (usually bottom middle or right). It can be small and simple in design as to not clutter up the screen.

Well I rambled enough hope you guys come up with something that allows for reference, doesn't clutter the screen much, but doesn't require a drawn out action to achieve what's needed (i.e. reach for a compass).

Cheers!

 

[Aniallator]

Well guys after fours years as an Airborne Ranger with the 3/75 I would like to shed a little light on this topic. Okay so first off nobody in the infantry pulls out a compass when they are in a firefight or/and take fire...just doesn't happen. Compasses were generally used for navigation and maybe some long distance target referencing....or to give a general direction the enemy may be in.

How does it work when you make contact? Well it's really simple actually....

1. All basic infantry move in platoons/squads and they orientate themselves based off their squad leaders and team leaders.
2. While moving their direction of travel is always 12:00....BOOM!!
3. Contact is made! At that moment the clock is used to give out the direction of the enemy based on the direction your squad was moving and the distance as well.
4. Sounds like this....contact is made...entire squad hits the ground and usually one or more will yell out "Contact 3:00 (right flank) 300 meters!!"
5. Everyone turns 45 degrees to the right where 3:00 would be located on the clock.

This only works if you have VOIP/coms and you are working with a cohesive squad. So again, when/if contact is made it would not be realistic to reach in your belt and pull out a compass to tell people the direction...you probably would die during the process.

What works pretty well in most "realistic" shooters is a small reference compass on the screen (usually bottom middle or right). It can be small and simple in design as to not clutter up the screen.

Well I rambled enough hope you guys come up with something that allows for reference, doesn't clutter the screen much, but doesn't require a drawn out action to achieve what's needed (i.e. reach for a compass).

Cheers!

Thank you for this insight And thanks for explaining the clock system, I could never remember what the hell 12:00 was supposed to indicate!

On top of physical maps, I'd still kill to see a physical compass pulled out with the map; even in video games, I don't think someone would pull out a compass during a firefight unless they had a good reason. As for the HUD compass, I think I'd prefer to see cardinal directions? And let an actual compass handle compass degrees. Either way I'll be referencing clock directions more often now xD