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A list of suggestions before I lose Internet

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Aniallator

Member
I want to apologize in advance for the length of the post... these are just things I was thinking about over the week. I'll be losing Internet access soon and I won't have any again for some weeks, so I just wanted to get this all out now.

1. Weapon randomization. How will different weapons be issued to players? For example, the Germans will have access to two bolt-action rifles, the Karabiner and the Lebel. When will players be issued Karabiners, and when will they be issued Lebels? I don't know what you guys have planned, but I'd like to suggest weapon randomization on spawn (I believe I suggested this ages ago). Basically, there's a percentage chance of spawning with X, Y, or Z weapons. For example, as a German LMG gunner, there's a 60% chance of spawning with an MG 34 as your primary, and a 40% chance of an MG 42. Then there's a 20%, 30%, and 50% chance of spawning with a Luger, Ruby, or P 38 respectively as your secondary. The randomization system would apply to all applicable roles, and if there's information available, you could base the percentages on historical data. Personally, I'd really, really like to see a randomization system; it would also allow the British assault and NCO roles to both have access to the Sten and Thompson, though their percentages would differ.

2. Communication and the radioman role. I know there's a lot of hype about the prospect of a radioman role to facilitate non-positional VoIP, but I'd like to suggest that radiomen not be implemented for communication. Of course, there would be two forms of VoIP, positional and non-positional. Everyone would be able to use positional, while only SLs would be able to use non-positional, among themselves. The backpack radio that radiomen carry would perform the same way as a static radio, used by SLs to request support assets. Like other roles limited on a team-wide as well as section-wide basis (medic, sniper, et cetera), the number of radioman roles available per team would be very limited; for Overlord (16 versus 16), I see there being one or at most two radioman roles per team, though this would increase as the player count increases. Historically, backpack radios were issued on a company and at most platoon level, not on a section level. Furthermore, some theaters just can't be implemented if distance communication is dependent on a radioman role. The closest thing the French had to a portable radio doesn't really fit the word "portable". So think about this in terms of a future battle of France chapter ;)

3. The ammunition indicator on the HUD should only show how many belts/clips/grenades/magazines/rounds are remaining for the weapon you have equipped; for example, if you have your Thompson equipped, the indicator should show only how many Thompson magazines you have, and not also how many Mills bombs you have (not sure if that's already the case, just saying). Changing weapons as well as reloading should toggle the indicator (for a few seconds before it disappears again). IMO the ammunition indicator on the HUD should be used for indicating all forms of ammunition in TW, including vehicle ammunition and different ammunition types.

4. Changing ammunition types needs to be implemented realistically; for example, if you have a smoke round loaded in your SBML 2-inch mortar, pressing the key to change your ammunition type to an HE round shouldn't have any effect until you reload; after you've fired the smoke round and press R, you'd reload an HE round. You'd of course be able to tell what ammunition type you have selected by the icon in the ammunition indicator of the HUD. And just a quick request... please implement mortars so they're not loaded when you spawn!

5. A feature I think would be really cool is a pointing feature, where holding whatever key makes you raise your left arm and point in the direction you're facing. This would be hugely useful when indicating something to someone who isn't near you, or indicating something when silence is a necessity. Or, for example, if you're an SL, you could point to where you want the section LMG gunner to set up or what building the section should clear, et cetera. The number of situations where a simple pointing feature could be used are endless.

Whether hand signals are implemented or not, at least have this to go along with pointing: when holding whatever key, you hold your arms up (or one arm if you have a heavy weapon) and wave your arms above your head. For example, if you as an SL set up the section Bren outside town to cover the section as it advances, and you've arranged for the Bren gunner to regroup with the section when you deliver a signal, this would be a great way to signal in this instance and any instances involving communicating something over a distance.

6. Reloading effects. Assuming reloading is implemented so that magazines, whether they retain rounds or not, are discarded, is there any chance of animations for the applicable weapons showing that? For example, after pulling out the used magazine on your MP 40, you visually drop it or toss it away? Whether this is implemented or not, can there be a kind of clatter sound added to reflect the magazine being dropped? I'm basing these suggestions on the animations and sounds seen in the weapon demos, so I don't know what the current reloading animations and sounds are like. Personally I'd love if we were able to save the discarded magazine, if it retains rounds, by holding R.
 

SpaceCroissant

Well-known member
Randomised weapons sounds frustrating. I think most players expect a consistent/easily predictable experience, and not knowing why they've suddenly spawned as the same class but with a different weapon seems like poor design. In my personal opinion a simple weapon selection option would make more sense. Anyone else is free to weigh in of course.
 

drummer93

Member
3. The ammunition indicator on the HUD should only show how many belts/clips/grenades/magazines/rounds are remaining for the weapon you have equipped; for example, if you have your Thompson equipped, the indicator should show only how many Thompson magazines you have, and not also how many Mills bombs you have...

why? You must be able to check your equipment all the time. I don't understand this point
 

drummer93

Member
Randomised weapons sounds frustrating. I think most players expect a consistent/easily predictable experience, and not knowing why they've suddenly spawned as the same class but with a different weapon seems like poor design. In my personal opinion a simple weapon selection option would make more sense. Anyone else is free to weigh in of course.

if you let me choice between the Mauser K98 and the Lebel 1886, I think the second one not have a lot of opportunities to be selected
 
6. Reloading effects. Assuming reloading is implemented so that magazines, whether they retain rounds or not, are discarded, is there any chance of animations for the applicable weapons showing that? For example, after pulling out the used magazine on your MP 40, you visually drop it or toss it away? Whether this is implemented or not, can there be a kind of clatter sound added to reflect the magazine being dropped? I'm basing these suggestions on the animations and sounds seen in the weapon demos, so I don't know what the current reloading animations and sounds are like. Personally I'd love if we were able to save the discarded magazine, if it retains rounds, by holding R.

I do believe that @VonMudra once said that throwing away mags, even if empty, was considered bad practice. Also, if you reload right before a surprise attack, and you drop a mag with a clang, you would not only draw the ire of your team mates, but also become a magnet for a shedload of hot lead.
[MENTION=1152]drummer93[/MENTION]: Perhaps have a separate rifleman class without grenades for the Lebel, and an assault rifleman class with grenades and the K98
 

FlyingR

Member
I do believe that @VonMudra once said that throwing away mags, even if empty, was considered bad practice. Also, if you reload right before a surprise attack, and you drop a mag with a clang, you would not only draw the ire of your team mates, but also become a magnet for a shedload of hot lead.

Yes I remember that too. Plus you are completely right, I was thinking the same, especially at night, where nobody tries to make a sound, and the mag drops to the ground, people would hear that. If the mags would be visible, then anybody could see the mags on the ground and they would know that someone was around.
 

drummer93

Member
@drummer93: Perhaps have a separate rifleman class without grenades for the Lebel, and an assault rifleman class with grenades and the K98

I understand your point, but you are giving the worst rifle without grenades to rifleman. Who wants to play with that configuration?. I mean, you can accomplish the same role with the K98 (and maybe do it better), and also have grenades.

I think, as @Aniallator said, that it has to be random, because of this two points:

1) Remember that the Germans were armed with this captured weapons to face the supplies issues. So, random weapons make the game more historically accurate.

2) As I said previously, if you have the chance of select what weapon you want, some weapons won't be used. The team did an excellent work with the Lebel model, it is beautiful, and I'm sure that the animations and the sounds are excellent too. It's a shame if the people ignore this rifle because was outdated. Can be a challenge use it, and also be fun.


---EDIT---

I want to put this video. It is interesting:

 
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I understand where you're coming from. It does indeed seem strange to give an outdated rifle no extra backup, but as the gentleman above demonstrated, it's pretty hard to effectively perform an attack with a Lebel, you'd want to give your assault troops a rifle with a magazine that's quick to load. So it does make sense to give the Lebel to a more supporting role troop class.

In FH2, on Tunis, and some other maps, you both have an assault rifleman class and a standard rifleman class without grenades and Schießbecher. It's a possibility to be considered, in my mind. But it is clear that this matter should best be left to rigourous testing to decide which system is best.
 

drummer93

Member
I understand where you're coming from. It does indeed seem strange to give an outdated rifle no extra backup, but as the gentleman above demonstrated, it's pretty hard to effectively perform an attack with a Lebel, you'd want to give your assault troops a rifle with a magazine that's quick to load. So it does make sense to give the Lebel to a more supporting role troop class.

In FH2, on Tunis, and some other maps, you both have an assault rifleman class and a standard rifleman class without grenades and Schießbecher. It's a possibility to be considered, in my mind. But it is clear that this matter should best be left to rigourous testing to decide which system is best.


mmm yes, I think that now I understand what you mean. So, you suggest two different rifleman classes, that have to be necessarily selected to complete the section?. Yes it is a good idea too.
 

VonMudra

Well-known member
Weapon issuance will be in line with the reality of the units we are representing. Garrison units will have less modern rifles, combat units will have K98k. Units like 21st or 352nd that might fall into a grey area will be dealt with on case by case basis, and I'd mostly see us basically giving K98k to rifleman and french/other mauser rifles to Engineer.
 

Aniallator

Member
Randomised weapons sounds frustrating. I think most players expect a consistent/easily predictable experience, and not knowing why they've suddenly spawned as the same class but with a different weapon seems like poor design. In my personal opinion a simple weapon selection option would make more sense. Anyone else is free to weigh in of course.

Fair point! However, basically what drummer said; I think that if players choose the weapons they spawn with, a lot of weapons will go pretty unused. I mean, how many of the average players are going to choose an MG 34 over an MG 42? Most players will probably just go with the weapon that has the largest magazine capacity. Yes, in a randomization system you might spawn with an MG 34 when you were expecting an MG 42, but it's not like you're going to spawn with a K 98. The randomization system would of course only apply to weapons in the same class, so randomization among pistols, or randomization among SMGs, and so on. And to be fair, IRL the average soldier wouldn't have been able to choose if he used a Lebel or a K 98, a P 38 or a Ruby; he was issued what he was issued.

In the end, I don't really mind if players choose their weapons, but I worry about some weapons not really being used, and other weapons being used by excessively.

Randomization aside, what @VonMudra said sounds like a great system as well, where the loadouts of some roles will depend on map/unit.


why? You must be able to check your equipment all the time. I don't understand this point

Maybe you misunderstood? I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't be able to check our magazine count, I'm suggesting that the ammunition indicator on the HUD should display ONLY the magazine count of the weapon you have equipped at that moment, and not for any other weapons at the same moment. For example, if you want to see how many MP 40 magazines you have, equip your MP 40, or if you want to see how many Stielhandgranate 24s you have, equip a Stielhandgranate 24; but you shouldn't be able to see both your MP 40 magazine count and Stielhandgranate 24 count at the same time... again, if that's not already the case.
 

drummer93

Member
Weapon issuance will be in line with the reality of the units we are representing. Garrison units will have less modern rifles, combat units will have K98k. Units like 21st or 352nd that might fall into a grey area will be dealt with on case by case basis, and I'd mostly see us basically giving K98k to rifleman and french/other mauser rifles to Engineer.

excellent
 

drummer93

Member
Maybe you misunderstood? I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't be able to check our magazine count, I'm suggesting that the ammunition indicator on the HUD should display ONLY the magazine count of the weapon you have equipped at that moment, and not for any other weapons at the same moment. For example, if you want to see how many MP 40 magazines you have, equip your MP 40, or if you want to see how many Stielhandgranate 24s you have, equip a Stielhandgranate 24; but you shouldn't be able to see both your MP 40 magazine count and Stielhandgranate 24 count at the same time... again, if that's not already the case.

I understood. It has some reason? I don't know why you have to equip the grenade to check how many grenades you have. I think you must be able to check your equipment all the time, doesn't matter what weapon you are using at the moment.
 

Aniallator

Member
I understood. It has some reason? I don't know why you have to equip the grenade to check how many grenades you have. I think you must be able to check your equipment all the time, doesn't matter what weapon you are using at the moment.

Gewehr 98 confirmed :D Anyway, I think it'd be better if you actually have to take out a weapon to see the magazine count... it's more realistic anyway, rather than seeing everything at once (which, for some roles, would result in a pretty cluttered HUD).
 

drummer93

Member
Gewehr 98 confirmed :D

WOW YES :D

Aniallator said:
Anyway, I think it'd be better if you actually have to take out a weapon to see the magazine count... it's more realistic anyway, rather than seeing everything at once (which, for some roles, would result in a pretty cluttered HUD).

mm I'm not convinced, for me is less realistic. I mean, in real life you can check your grenades when you are using your rifle. Also, I think it could be a little awkward for the gameplay implement what you are proposing. But well, we just have different points of view
 

Aniallator

Member
we just have different points of view

And that's the beauty of it :) Though I'd prefer having to change weapons, I'd be fine with what you're suggesting so long as the ammunition indicator size is scaled down a bit, so that the whole bottom of the screen isn't obscured by the magazine counters for all the weapons you have.
 
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