• Welcome to the Vanguard Community

    These forums date back to the game's origins as the Crysis mod Traction Wars. Over the years the game and internet habits have evolved and discord.gg/vanguardww2 is now the principle home of the community.

    The team continue to read and reply to posts here, but we can be contacted more quickly on Discord.

Point systems, KDR and more.

Status
Not open for further replies.

LuckyOne

Member
Vanguard Friend
I have never been a fan of K/D ratio as the ultimate measure of your success. What is it worth if you killed 10 random soldiers in the middle of nowhere but you haven't helped take the designated objective at all. Furthermore I believe K/D ratio promotes camping in a lot of games.

Therefore I would like Traction Wars to be different. That is, not show kills/deaths at all until at least the end of the round.

But how do we tell who the most successful player of the round is then? It should not necessary be the one who killed the most enemies, but the one who helped his team the most.

------

I once had an idea of basing the player points on the value I termed "combat effectiveness". It would be calculated by some kind of formula with weighted terms that would take into account your kills (least important), deaths (somewhat important),
teamwork points (important) and objective points (very important). The idea was that your points in game depend on your
success in the game, but encourage you to actively go for objectives instead of camp.

Alternately, you can have it like a percentage that has a base value of, let's say, 50 % (or you can start with 0 %, all values are completely arbitrary in this example). Every time you die your effectiveness drops by, let's say, 5 %. Every kill you make raises it by 1 %. Every teamwork point (resupply player, give bandage, suppress enemy, defend objective, attack objective) raises it by 3 %. Every objective secured raises it by 10 %. The idea is to be able to tell the most valuable people on your team by looking at their "combat effectiveness" instead of their K/D ratio. However, there's a catch... Kills can only get you up to 75 %. To earn more than that you would need to do all the other things as well (to prevent camping).

However, as different classes have different tasks on the battlefield the idea would need to be changed.

For example, an assault kit's role would be to go to objectives and cap/clear the area, so he could get more points by killing enemies in the objective range and securing it. A support MG doesn't necessary need to be in the objective zone but
needs to stay back and provide covering fire. So he could get more points by successfully suppressing and killing
enemies in the objective. A marksman shouldn't really be finding himself in the objective area at all, but should be
providing long range support etc.

With that system, basically, the more successful in your chosen role you are, the more effectiveness you gain.

This could be done via "modifiers" to the base values given above. For example assault troops could get double the amount for captures and 1% extra for attacking objectives. Riflemen could get double amount for resupply and 1% extra for defending objectives. MG could get double for suppressing and 1 % more for killing enemies, anti-tank classes double for killing tanks, snipers and marksmen double for killing MG gunners and NCOs... Now every "limited" class could have a modifier for death too, so for example you would lose 2 % more for dying as an MG gunner, double for dying as a sniper, 3 % more for dying as an NCO etc.

------

The idea is that you could somehow "funnel" the players into playing their roles appropriately and using real world tactics because the points given are connected to them... And also to introduce "fear" of dying in vain.

Hovewer, as Traction Wars will likely attract veterans of many realism games instead of "more casual" players, maybe we don't even need something like this, as it would be very hard to devise and balance right (or maybe the MG role should be more attractive, to simulate its importance :p). The veterans will play their roles correctly anyway.

What are your thoughts?
 
Last edited:

K. Steine

Member
I personally really like this idea. I definitely think that the player's effectiveness shouldn't be shown until the end of the game. This can make people a lot less 'needy' for points. I also think that there shouldn't be an indicator for when you get points. It just happens and you will see how well you did at the end. Maybe an 'award' system should also be featured like; "The most effective" Or the "Best shot" So not only one person is awarded for doing his job. So one person from each role will be selected for their effectiveness in the game, and be awarded at the end for it.
 

Roughbeak

Member
Yes, this idea is really nice in my opinion.

If you have played BF2: FH2, at the end of a round they show the best players at the end of a round. The second page they show is: the most effective players for their job. For example: best rifleman: joeblow, best tanker: joeblow. ;)

Hopefully this will be incorporated in Traction Wars, though I still think at the end of a round they should show who received gold, silver, bronze, best squad, etc.
 

ScheifferB

Well-known member
Love the idea, however showing peoples 'effectiveness' at the end of the round I do not agree with. If people want to count their kills then they should do it realistically, by eye sight.. if you really want to immerse yourself, etch a tally into your bedroom wall every time you get a kill. (excuse the joke)

In all seriousness, points, and K/DR shouldn't be shown at all. Same for points for Capture. Both will encourage camping play whether it is shown during the round, or at the end.

To determine who are the effective players, is to witness which team wins in the end. In a game like this, all players who strive for realism, and team cohersion will ultimately be 'effective players' - Scheiffer Bates, 20/08/2013 - Voice Actor, and decedent of Sun Tzu
 

_Franky_

Well-known member
Ok thinking about Goldeneye here. N64. At the end of a match, I always loved the awarded titles people received. Like "best marksman" or "most cowardly". Just putting that out there. :D Of course we could go into a more specific direction where according to the role you played and what your chosen equipment was, we could give feedback to the player to how well they handled it. This could be visible to the rest of their team so that adjustments could be made. But I don't think it would be a good idea to directly tie such a thing into the score that decides the battle. Btw, this is all just my personal opinion, I have no idea what we are cooking up for the game at the moment, I'm just an artist. 8)
 
Last edited:
Or the title in Star Wars Battlefront 2: Bantha Fodder. I would get cannon fodder every time if it were a Traction Wars award.
 

LuckyOne

Member
Vanguard Friend
Love the idea, however showing peoples 'effectiveness' at the end of the round I do not agree with. If people want to count their kills then they should do it realistically, by eye sight.. if you really want to immerse yourself, etch a tally into your bedroom wall every time you get a kill. (excuse the joke)

In all seriousness, points, and K/DR shouldn't be shown at all. Same for points for Capture. Both will encourage camping play whether it is shown during the round, or at the end.

To determine who are the effective players, is to witness which team wins in the end. In a game like this, all players who strive for realism, and team cohersion will ultimately be 'effective players' - Scheiffer Bates, 20/08/2013 - Voice Actor, and decedent of Sun Tzu

Well yeah that's what I was aiming at with "effectiveness". It enables feedback without explicitly telling you your kills or deaths. Basically it enables you to judge if you're playing good, or bad, and compare it to others. And it doesn't spam you with messages such as "NUT-SHOT! + 9000 POINTS!
 

Kevino

Member
Vanguard Friend
Just the other day I got 1st place for a round of falaise pocket on fh2, I was 5 kills 5 deaths and all my points came from using my binocs spotting good spots for arty. That is the only way I could ever finish in the top 8)
 
I'd like it if there were no KDR because it is true that having a kill count tends to lead people to get competitive over kills and camp. Instead it would be good if there were extensive statistics as to who did what best etc at the end of the match. It'd be cool if these reviewable whenever too, but that is perhaps unfeasible. What would be a good morale booster/motivator is if the score board only showed your own team, and what squad was doing best based on team points.
 

retfarcimak

Junior Member
I definitely love this idea. It's basically the concept of H&G but done right instead of focusing on kill bonuses (especially on tanks). It would definitely improve the experience for me since I tend to try playing objective in games.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top