Ranks, unlocks & perks?

[TheBuG]

I don't know how the game is currently being build, so the things I'm about to suggest might not work with the general plan and could be disregarded if that's the case.

I realize the game is going to be a realism game and this already makes it more attractive to a smaller playerbase than most modern first person shooters. This does not change the fact that you need something that keeps the players in the game.

Levelling/ranking up is as you probably know one of the most popular systems used to keep players going. Ranking up gives a certain satisfying feeling that keeps gamers going. I think this should know be excluded from Traction Wars. But whereas other games usually reward weapons or anything alike, I personally think an approach similiar to League of Legends would be better.

League of Legends is the most popular MOBA game on the market at the moment, it's completely free to play (though you can spend money but it doesn't give an advantage) but there's plenty for the player to work to. Your account has a mastery tree in which you can specialize in offense, defense or support. You get rewarded 1 mastery point every level up to level 30. I personally think such a system could work for TW. For example, a british soldiers will not be familiar with the german weapons, but there could be occassions where he will have to use them. If he does so, he should (imo) face certain penalties such a slower reload time and maybe a slower rate of fire when using a bolt action rifle. (Remember this is all just an example, as I have no clue what the game is (planned) like at the moment) So for example we could have a perk which a player/soldier could spent 2 points in to first reduce the penalty by 50%(1 point)/100%(2 points).

The second idea I had was that of an ingame store, to use ingame currency. Say, you earn a certain amount of points in a game. Now I know it's not realistic, but some customization is nice to distinct you from other players. Perhaps it would be nice for this store to feature certain uniforms or just simple things such as shoulderpads (not sure if I translated that correctly) with your battailions/platoon's badge on it.

Edit: We should however not end up with winter uniforms in Tobruk or anything.

I know it might not add to the realism, but it can keep the players in the game and it does not alter the gameplay. It does however add rewards to the game which can keep players going. Because rewards are nice, though you should not over do them.

 

[Moody]

I think that if a game needs an unlock system to keep players interested, then it's not really that great of a game. The gameplay should be enough to keep people interested and coming back time and time again. Project Reality is a Battlefield 2 mod that first released in 2005, and to this very day has at least 2 to 4 completely full 64 player servers every single day. That was 8 years ago. The player base might not be huge, but the communities dedication is. Red Orchestra 2 is a great game, but one of the biggest complains it gets from the realism crowd is the inclusion of unlocks. It seems that when games try to appeal to 2 different crowds, neither crowd is all that happy.

Don't want to speak for the devs in any way shape or form, but this game seems to be striving for a high level of authenticity, and a large amount of realism. I just think this suggestion is too far off the realism path to be worth considering. I don't think it would be prudent at all to have fallschirmjäger and British commando skins or any other flashy alternate cammos/skins. On top of the fact that this would be going against what I think the core game design is, it would entail a lot of extra work, which could instead be put into simply making the game more fun to play.

Sorry if I sound kinda harsh, I just think that this might not be the game for you if that's the kinda stuff you like. If the devs want to appeal to the modern shooter crowd, that's all fine (it's their game), but I would at least say stick to one path or the other. Go for the demographic you know you can get (whichever it may be). Innovate, don't alienate.

 

[TheBuG]

Which is why I specified that weapon unlocks are no fun, rather other more cosmetic additions which you've earned by working hard and distincting you from other players, even if it's only cosmetic. But it shows that you've worked to achieve something.

Edit: It also don't necessarily have to be purchased through a store. But think of achievements aswell. Like: Oh, you've paradropped into enemy territory x amount of times, we'll grant you the standard paratrooper/fallschirmjager uniform.

Edit2: And yes, unlocks and being able to distict yourself from other players actually keep players into the game. Why do you think a game like World of Warcraft is hugely popular (I'm not saying that a game needs to be popular to be good though)? It's easy to get into the game and the game rewards you for what you do. If you work hard you'll get items that maybe only very few players in the world will get. Other people see and it are like "Oh WoW, you worked hard for that" (Or, you have no life).

Edit3: Unlocks/attachments for weapon don't necessarily have to be bad either. If you apply a scope (this is a general example and probably not really appliable to TW, but it works) to a weapon, you'll be able to increase your accurasy and range. Great! But you also nruin your ability to shoot at close range if the scope has a huge zoom on it.

 

[VonMudra]

Problem with weapon unlocks is that there really are no "attachments" for WW2 rifles. Bayonets are issued to all men (even bren gunners carried them), scopes are sniper only, and rifle grenade launchers will be for a grenadier class (one per squad or so). Rank is already reflected in the game as well, a Bren gunner would be a Lance Corp, a squad lead would be Corporal (for British army) or Unteroffizer(for German army).

 

[TheBuG]

Problem with weapon unlocks is that there really are no "attachments" for WW2 rifles. Bayonets are issued to all men (even bren gunners carried them), scopes are sniper only, and rifle grenade launchers will be for a grenadier class (one per squad or so). Rank is already reflected in the game as well, a Bren gunner would be a Lance Corp, a squad lead would be Corporal (for British army) or Unteroffizer(for German army).

Fair enough, weapon attachments not so much. Weapon variants more so. Especially for paratroopers there were usually lighter, modified variants of standard weaponry available. This could for example increase your sprinting speed or your sprinting time. Another example for something which could be a weapon upgrade or so is the drum mag for the Thompson submachine gun, even the british used those. Or the Bren light machine gun with aperture sight as the mark 1 variant.

And people, you really need to get used to the word ideas and examples. You're all either completely misunderstanding my post or you didn't finish reading it.

 

[Komrade]

I don't think it's a good idea to add any unlockable attachments if the game wants to be realistic. Drum mags weren't used with Thompson very much, at least not during Overlord. Soldiers should be equipped with the basic weapon which they were meant to carry and not any exceptions. Rifleman with Enfield, NCO with Sten etc.

If adding unlocks and ranks to the game is a way to try to keep people playing this game.. I don't think it would work. There is already RO2, which was a huge disappointment for me and many others as it was tried to make for two different crowds: for Ostfront vets and more casual players. I really do hope that this game won't end up same.

 

[hannibaldinski]

I like to see things like camouflage on helmets. Simple things that make your soldier a bit more unique.

 

[Komrade]

A little customization would be nice, like editing soldiers face, maybe possibility to add some dirt on it and add camoflauge scrims to helmet net if you have one. Germans also had some helmet camoflauge covers(Splinter).

 

[TheBuG]

I don't think it's a good idea to add any unlockable attachments if the game wants to be realistic. Drum mags weren't used with Thompson very much, at least not during Overlord. Soldiers should be equipped with the basic weapon which they were meant to carry and not any exceptions. Rifleman with Enfield, NCO with Sten etc.

If adding unlocks and ranks to the game is a way to try to keep people playing this game.. I don't think it would work. There is already RO2, which was a huge disappointment for me and many others as it was tried to make for two different crowds: for Ostfront vets and more casual players. I really do hope that this game won't end up same.

Granted, drum mags weren't really used a lot in Overlord by the british army. Mainly before Overlord, but again, it was used mostly in Northern Africa where the british realized the drum magazines were terribly bad. It had more bullets, but it also increased weight etc. It had pros and cons compared to the normal mags.

Oh and RO2 was not the dissapointment it was because of faulty design, but because of faulty implementation.

 

[Moody]

One thing that I did love about RO2 was the idea that your guy would get more war torn and beat up over time. I wouldn't mind getting skrim on your helmet, or netting. Maybe changing up the kit on your body to look different (ie, give German MG the option of looking like a badass by having an MG belt drooped around his shoulders). Choosing between different faces would be nice. I still don't think it's a good idea to give soldiers a completely different and out-standing skin.

Also, people in RO2 never complained that the unlock system isn't implemented well, they complained that it was there at all. It really is pretty frustrating to have to unlock standard issue items like the drum mag for the PPSH, or bayonets.

 

[TheBuG]

One thing that I did love about RO2 was the idea that your guy would get more war torn and beat up over time. I wouldn't mind getting skrim on your helmet, or netting. Maybe changing up the kit on your body to look different (ie, give German MG the option of looking like a badass by having an MG belt drooped around his shoulders). Choosing between different faces would be nice. I still don't think it's a good idea to give soldiers a completely different and out-standing skin.

Also, people in RO2 never complained that the unlock system isn't implemented well, they complained that it was there at all. It really is pretty frustrating to have to unlock standard issue items like the drum mag for the PPSH, or bayonets.

Which means they did not implement it like their community wanted, making it bad implementation because they didn't bother for a good beta test.

 

[Moody]

Personally, I cannot think of a good implementation of an unlock system for RO2. I'm not sure what type of unlock system the community wanted since I don't frequent their forums, but I never liked the idea of unlocking anything in RO2, and I didn't like the inclusion of incredibly rare addons and attachments (such as the double ammo things for the MG34 and MP40). The reason I don't like them is because they imbalance the game by giving an advantage to certain players just because they've played the game longer, and at the same time takes away from the authenticity of the game. But this is just my personal opinion. RO2 is a different game anyways.

I think that the sheer amount of extra work it would take to include any kind of unlock/customization system is enough to put this debate on the sidelines. I think the bigger focus should be on making the core game, and that this idea should be brought back up for consideration only once the basics are all in place.

 

[VonMudra]

Fair enough, weapon attachments not so much. Weapon variants more so. Especially for paratroopers there were usually lighter, modified variants of standard weaponry available. This could for example increase your sprinting speed or your sprinting time. Another example for something which could be a weapon upgrade or so is the drum mag for the Thompson submachine gun, even the british used those. Or the Bren light machine gun with aperture sight as the mark 1 variant.

Sorry to say, but drum mags were long gone in even british army by 1944. Bren MG Mk1 at the aperture sight, you won't be seeing that as an attachable, as it simply wasn't done that way. As for para, well, British para didn't have any special light weight weapons issued, and the american para only had a very very rare folding stock M1 carbine (but americans will not be in this first release).