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Biggest Misconceptions About World War II?

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wars are won not by soldiers, or generals leading from the front- they're won by the side that can best organize and supply it's armies to support campaigns. Rommel was simply never able to do that. His tactical victories hold sway due to their granduer, but it is really a false veneer once you chip away to see the larger war.​

This reminds me of trying to carefully explain to morons that the Tiger II was not a war winning tank. The god damned thing weighed 70 tons and therefore was a supply nightmare. Especially considering the mechanical troubles German equipment was known for. Consider that all tanks, even today require mountains of maintenance and not consider that multiplied a few times by material or design problems.

Just imagine trying to fuel an army based around Tiger II's..... Much less trying to manufacture enough of them....

This also reminded me of explaining that one of the reasons why Germany eventually collapsed is that in 1943 they took enough losses quickly enough that they literally couldn't replace and rebuilt what was destroyed, as well as cover another front opening up.
 

drummer93

Member
This reminds me of trying to carefully explain to morons that the Tiger II was not a war winning tank. The god damned thing weighed 70 tons and therefore was a supply nightmare. Especially considering the mechanical troubles German equipment was known for. Consider that all tanks, even today require mountains of maintenance and not consider that multiplied a few times by material or design problems.

Just imagine trying to fuel an army based around Tiger II's..... Much less trying to manufacture enough of them....

This also reminded me of explaining that one of the reasons why Germany eventually collapsed is that in 1943 they took enough losses quickly enough that they literally couldn't replace and rebuilt what was destroyed, as well as cover another front opening up.

Tiger II a winning tank? haha and who said that? xD This not have to be explained
 
I was discussing on the Heroes and Generals forums whee someone was hell bent on stating that the Tiger II was the absolute pinnacle of tank technology and design in ww2. I derided the Tiger II stating "a hunk of metal does not make a great tank", which is true. Part of the problem with such a heavy tank is that it even limits the bridges a tank can cross. For example: modern Abrams tanks started at 54 tons. In Iraq due to the increasing use of mines and ambushes against tanks they added more belly armor and reactive plating over the vulnerable sides increasing the weight to the point that an Abrams modified as such cannot cross a portable bridging system anymore. That's something that would kill a campaign right there.

The T-34 had numerous problems mechanically that in my opinion puts it out of the running as the best tank of the war. When your engine has a lifespan of 200km you got a problem. Personally I think the Panther was overall the best design but that's just me. Surprisingly the m4 Sherman despite some problems had hidden advantages. Such as the fact that it lent to more ready up gunning than any other tank. The "super sherman" with a 105mm gun that fought in the six day war is a nasty foe.
 

Koenigstiger

New Member
The Königstiger was just another route that German development took in ww2

Maybe they thought bigger, scarier tank = prolonged shock

Once that initial shock the Tiger instils when it arrives on the battlefield is gone then it becomes just another tank, a tank with a powerful gun and armour but still just another tank

I'd take a StuG over a Tiger anyday, at least you can rely on the StuG
 

Aniallator

Member
lol

What school was that?

My understanding was that it was a group effort as was the entire war

We were, after all "The Allies"

Oh, the war was by all means a group effort for the Allies! It's just that learning about the Pacific theater, we were told close to nothing on America's part... the battle of the Coral sea wasn't even mentioned. I've talked to several Aussies who were convinced that the United States entered the war purely because we were afraid that if the Allies were defeated, they wouldn't be able to repay us for the billions we spent on lend-lease.
 

Koenigstiger

New Member
But you find those kinds of people everywhere

m-muh USA did everything, without you'd be speaking German!

m-muh great patriotic war, USSR "liberated" everyone from Nazi tyranny!

and so on
 

Feldmeijer

Member
So after seeing Fury everyone is now convinced that the Sherman was only able to penetrate the Tiger I trough the back...

#t(h)anksfury
 

calgoblin

Pathfinder Games
I didn't see it. It's a good movie?

I thought so. Not sure on the accuracy of the constantly reflected tank rounds, but certainly the most intense and enjoyable tank battles in a film I've ever seen. Bradd Pitt wasn't entirely irritating either, which is always a plus.
 

drummer93

Member
I thought so. Not sure on the accuracy of the constantly reflected tank rounds, but certainly the most intense and enjoyable tank battles in a film I've ever seen. Bradd Pitt wasn't entirely irritating either, which is always a plus.

Maybe one who saw it and know about WWII tanks can make a thread talking about technical aspects in the movie
 

VonMudra

Well-known member
As I understand it (having not seen the movie, but spoken to many who have), the internal tank scenes were beautifully done, as well as what it looked like for a tank to take a bit. But the combat scenes were generic Hollywood action, with tracers everywhere, the Germans unable to hit anything (German war-time studies found that Pak40s had a ~90% hit rate in combat under 1000 yards on stationary targets, with gunners expected to hit a moving target at that range by the 3rd shot at minimum. Since the tanks are basically driving straight at them without maneuvering, that might as well be stationary, and at a much closer range than 1000 yards), and the Pakfront they show can't hit **** it seems. It's not set up correctly anyways, German doctrine, as with any army, would have the AT guns sighted with overlapping fields of fire at angles to the enemy's attack approach, not shooting dead on), Germans putting up stiff resistance to the Americans in mid 1945 (more like surrendering en masse), and SS banzai charging the front of a tank with infantry who don't know how to use their panzerfausts. So pretty generic Hollywood action. If you really want a movie that does WW2 combat well (they do use modern tanks, but cover them up nicely with lots of camo netting and only showing them at night, so meh, whatever), check out In the Line of Fire: El Alamein, a gorgeously presented Italian war-flick from the 2000s. Kokoda was also excellent as a depiction of the jungle warfare in New Guinea between the Japanes SNLF and Australian militiamen of the 39th Battalion, who, outnumbered 10 to 1, managed to slow and eventually halt the Japanese advance on Port Moresby.
 
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Feldmeijer

Member
According to a friend in my class the Tiger in the movie was Tiger 131 from The Bovington Tank Museum, is this correct?
 

Leopardi

Member
yes, for me the Panther was the most successful design too

If only they had a more durable final drive... half of them were lost because of one part breaking down.

Most importantly the final drive only had a life of 150 km (93 mi). Half of the Panthers found in Normandy were abandoned due to their final drives breaking down.
 

siben

Member
To people calling tanks unreliable since they needed maintenace every 100km or so or even replacement parts.... Most cars werent much better.

We are talking over 70 years ago. 30 000km before you need to change oil and a filter like todays vehicules is a massive change compared to then.

A simple passenger train cariage this day even has Weekly! maintenance, also a special monthly one, 3 monthly, 6 monthly, 2 yearly and 10 yearly maintanance plan.

I am sure if you look around a bit you will find that a sherman also needed some form of maintanance before it could even finish its fuel tank. That is just the way things where then.

You can call this a problem if you like, sometimes it was (a transmission should not break if you press the gass to hard on a slope for example) but things like air filter problems, wear on the stearing belts is just super normal. lots of moving parts there that have to slide and cause friction then, so they cant last long.
 
One thing to point out about the sherman is that it was made with a massive amount of tested and proven "off the shelf" parts. Made it a cheap reliable tank to maintain and repair. It had the tendency to burn easily when hit but it at least was good at showing up on the field. Whereas others like the Pershing never managed to make it to the fight it seems.....

Funny thing though, modern tanks require shitloads of maintenance to keep running. Course this reminds me of a stupid argument I've had with someone who claimed "american equipment ww2 and today is ****." Lol, got in a discussion pointing out the excellent armor ect of the abrams tank but I think the most impressive features is that the engine can be made to run on almost any liquid fuel and that the thing is so easy to repair that I **** you not that I have seen the entire engine pulled out and replaced in 15 minutes. Its logistically one of the nicest tanks in the world.

another misconception of ww2 That Japanese technology was fundamentally inferior. Japan had the most advanced and sophisticated navy at the start of the war. Hell today our nuclear armed submarines that enforce MAD are essentially Japanese submersible aircraft carriers modified to fire missiles and given a nuclear power source instead of diesel. The various Arisaka rifles(save for the last ditch production) were the most solidly built bolt action rifles of the war. Really hubris from the military establishment was the Japanese undoing. Such as believing codes could never be broken....
 

VonMudra

Well-known member
I would note that much of the burning was solved when they introduced wet storage. Also the Pershing did make it to combat very late in 1945, and was pretty successful in the few actions it got into.
 
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