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Lets talk realism

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militaryprogamer

Member
Vanguard Friend
hi guys, i recently introduced myself in the general discussion

to those who don't know me, i would just say, im a simple guy, a naval sailor, and a realistic junkie, which is why fate caused me to stumble across your magnificent game

as i recently left "red orchestra 2" due to 1 feature (i will explain what those are)

now, we can all learn from other games the mistakes that they made, in order to make a perfect, if not almost perfect realistic game

currently i would say, RO 2 is the most realistic game that we have

NOW----what made RO 2 not realistic to me?

1st and foremost......ACCURACY, as in not historical accuracy, as in weapon accuracy

in RO2, the problem that makes the game unfun, is accuracy, you basically have 100 percent accuracy, (with the exception of pointing the gun a little higher because the bullets drop)

yes my friends, you point and it hits, as i browsed through the forums, to see if there was a thread made about accuracy in the game, there was, but some people just went on and said

"id rather shoot the guy and kill him right there, then shoot 10 times and hit him"

I SAY DIFFERENT, because there were many a times, where you peek out of a window, and some guy 150 meters away shoots you, and he doesnt even have a scope

this also affects machine gunners, coz they need to camp somewhere, making them a horrible class to play with, coz you can no longer cover an area, because some rifleman would just simply crawl up to a point where they could see you or a piece of your exposed skin, and just pop you right there

and another thing was the respawn time, it was simply too long in RO 2, which made players just hide at some spot and no longer attempted to attack, meaning less players in the field, it was more of a hide and seek sorta deal

now, the things i want to see in this game

i was hoping to take some features from RO 2 and putting them into this game

- hugging cover

- your avatars emotional state when he gets shot at

- your soldiers saying something, whenever, if you played RO 2, youd get what i mean, if not ill explain later

i also recently played another game called heroes and generals, the graphics were, i would say really good, however, it lacked emotion, it lacked that feature that made people actually want to survive, hence forth, it was boring, despite its good appearance

if you, the developers can make a player not want to get killed, you can make the player, play like he is in a real war

well, i know this isn't RO 2, its just that there were elements in that game, worth looking at, to make your game a ww2 experience, thanks for listening, any criticism is worth mentioning, just pls be polite
 

Roughbeak

Member
Nice post militaryprogamer! :)

Your thoughts and opinions were good, but I think the TW team will cook up the most realistic experience you could expect from a realistic game.
My thoughts on how TW could be so amazing is 5 things:

(1) Extraordinary good realism/historical advisors

(2) Stunning mappers (Maniche ;))

(3) Modelers and animators could not be better, it seems that they know how to do blow your brain out with epicness. :)

(4) Extremely great voice artist - ScheifferB (hats off ;))

(5) Super community, I could not have known such a nice forum in my life, just think how nice it will be on the battlefields of TW. :)
 
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Sir Apple

Well-known member
i was hoping to take some features from RO 2 and putting them into this game

- hugging cover

- your avatars emotional state when he gets shot at

- your soldiers saying something, whenever, if you played RO 2, youd get what i mean, if not ill explain later

I agree with most of these. I think we have long wanted to ensure these are implemented into our game. A good cover system is probably the most important in that list.

BUT I also have brought up several times, I want to have randomized voices from your character. For example, when you are reloading, sometimes your soldier will mumble something or act frustrated. When you suddenly take intense gun fire or are suppressed, your character verbally reacts.

TO ME, things like that make a great game an amazing game. Immersion comes from the details of unique features. I hate when games give no life to the character you play as.
 

militaryprogamer

Member
Vanguard Friend
if you played RO 2, THAT in terms of emotion, and how much life it had, would best describe it, and yes i agree with you whole heartedly
 

Sir Apple

Well-known member
Yes! It makes me and other developers happy to see that you want such features like the ones mentioned above :) It sort of helps us decide what to include and what not to include hehe ;)
 

Troy

Member
Please for the love of god make RO2 your new anti thesis. It was a horrible messed up waste of an engine.

"currently i would say, RO 2 is the most realistic game that we have" My attention was lost here, in what way would RO2 be portrayed as realistic!!!

"your avatars emotional state when he gets shot at" Do you mean them shabby avatars that indicate where you have been hit? If so then that's really pointless. I think it would be more than obvious that the reason your guy is limping around is because he has been shot in the leg.

"hugging cover" I can see the upsides and the down sides to this. The upsides being that it looks cool and you get a tad extra safety. Though I don't think it is needed. You would have enough cover by standing next to the wall and just playing safe. Its a feature that would also only work if there is 3rd person.

Also, you mention the spawn times in Ro2 being long. I don't believe they are, is it 30 seconds? I know that on RnL on 3rd servers anyway they are 30 seconds allies and 45 axis, it seems to work pretty well at keeping people at the frame of mind that they should stay safe and not try and run of into the open thinking he is the next Rambo.

Accuracy would be difficult to deal with. In Ro2 the firefights are no more than 100 metres from my experience, so people can be insanely accurate I believe most of the bolt actions were zeroed around 150 metres back then?? Thus meaning they could aim there iron sights on a person and be completely accurate around the 150 metre mark where the bullet starts to drop.
 

Sir Apple

Well-known member
I think a cover system is a great feature to have. RO2 did it very well (for the most part), furthermore I think it adds a lot of immersion, realism and fun. It feels unnatural and odd to just stand straight behind a wall looking at it like I'm on a baby preschool time-out or something.

I like the idea of really getting myself in cover via physical interaction.
 

militaryprogamer

Member
Vanguard Friend
Please for the love of god make RO2 your new anti thesis. It was a horrible messed up waste of an engine.

"currently i would say, RO 2 is the most realistic game that we have" My attention was lost here, in what way would RO2 be portrayed as realistic!!!

"your avatars emotional state when he gets shot at" Do you mean them shabby avatars that indicate where you have been hit? If so then that's really pointless. I think it would be more than obvious that the reason your guy is limping around is because he has been shot in the leg.

"hugging cover" I can see the upsides and the down sides to this. The upsides being that it looks cool and you get a tad extra safety. Though I don't think it is needed. You would have enough cover by standing next to the wall and just playing safe. Its a feature that would also only work if there is 3rd person.

Also, you mention the spawn times in Ro2 being long. I don't believe they are, is it 30 seconds? I know that on RnL on 3rd servers anyway they are 30 seconds allies and 45 axis, it seems to work pretty well at keeping people at the frame of mind that they should stay safe and not try and run of into the open thinking he is the next Rambo.

Accuracy would be difficult to deal with. In Ro2 the firefights are no more than 100 metres from my experience, so people can be insanely accurate I believe most of the bolt actions were zeroed around 150 metres back then?? Thus meaning they could aim there iron sights on a person and be completely accurate around the 150 metre mark where the bullet starts to drop.

in terms of a team that tried to make a realistic ww2 shooter? yup RO2 was pretty it, what else tried to make a realistic ww2 shooter?

call of duty 1 perhaps?, how bout day of defeat?, coz honestly, those are pretty much the only ww2 games i know of


when i said emotional state, when you get shot at, your avatar starts to panic and your vision gets a little grey, indicating you are being shot at, purely for aesthetic reasons, making the player feel he is supressed

hugging cover, is for making it look realistic as well, so......you'd rather have someone staring blankly into wall, and just peek by moving to the side?

- in addition to this, we are talking about realism, 3rd person doesnt apply here, its a cool feature, but simply unrealistic

as for spawn time, it was too long, and yes it encourage people to actually play safer, but it didnt really matter because you can't really advance, you die even if you play safe, and the game became "a hide and seek sort of deal" because of this reasons in RO 2

accuracy - it takes NO time whatsoever to line up your sights and shoot with accuracy, aim down your sights point and click, in less than a few seconds, your avatar doesnt even hold his breathe, maybe if your target was a few feet away from you, yeah, go ahead point and click

bugs- you can get killed by the enemy, and the only thing you see, is his head

aiming down your sights for an extended period of time - apparently RO 2's soldiers are supermen, coz they never need to drop their sights
 
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K. Steine

Member
In my honest opinion, the respawn time is just fine. The big two reasons are simple:

A: It gives a long enough time, for more people to die. Once more people have died, they will then go on to respawn with you; thus encouraging teamwork, especially if you respawn in a small group.

B: The point on whether or not you "Die anyway" The idea is when you die, will you just sprint straight into another death because "I don't have to wait long to magically be resurrected by Hades himself?"

As for the RO2 type cover system, I think could be neat. Though please make it more user-friendly than RO2 did.

P.S. While we're talking about realism, would it be safe to assume TW will have realistic bullet ballistics? Drop, and lead, etc?
 

Maniche

Level Designer
Pathfinder Games
The possibilities for such features are there indeed, the question is to implement it realistically.

Maniche
 

Troy

Member
"in terms of a team that tried to make a realistic ww2 shooter?" Invasion 1944, Iron front liberation, Resistance and Liberation, Ham and jam.

"when i said emotional state, when you get shot at, your avatar starts to panic and your vision gets a little grey, indicating you are being shot at, purely for aesthetic reasons, making the player feel he is supressed" Ah right, i thought you meant something else but yeah i do believe they will have a suppression system.

"aiming down your sights for an extended period of time - apparently RO 2's soldiers are supermen, coz they never need to drop their sights" This would actually be a nice feature, the longer you aim down the sights the more the accuracy decreases.
 
What if you're resting your weapon? When resting, based on my experience at the range you can hold considerably longer if not forever.
 

K. Steine

Member
What if you're resting your weapon? When resting, based on my experience at the range you can hold considerably longer if not forever.

Perhaps that could be added with he cover system? So if you're using the wall as cover, and you aim over it, you can hold your accuracy for longer by "Resting" on it.
 
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