Machine Guns and Bipods

[Nate]

I was wondering how TW will handle the light machine guns that each team will be using. Will you be able to mount them on cover like in RO 2 and other than that you must brace yourself to hip fire them if you are able to hip fire at all?

I would hope that the mgs are treated like a weapon that really must be supported to be effective at all. Many people in RO 2 have complained recently about how machine guns can be used as very effective room clearing weapons while in reality they wouldn't have been used at all in that role.

Im curious as to how the dev team is going to portray the mgs in TW.

Sorry this isn't really a suggestion but I suspect some people may have some good suggestions that come from this question.

 

[VonMudra]

I'm not sure if possible (once again, not a coder here xD Help Naga!) but if it is, bipods will be deployable on cover, and hip fire bracing will be in.

Also, I should note that mg's will be radically different on both sides. The Bren is actually rather suited to hip firing, the forward grip is actually designed to go into an assualt position (and I've held and fired the real one like that). The MG42, less so, but it's volume of lead down range will be unmatched. And, aside from modern pop history, it's blisteringly accurate, capable of 50% of rounds on target at 1000 yards, and same amount of lead on target at 3000 yards with the tripod (and even farther with a good forward observer).

Main thing that will make mg's powerful though, is their user. A well placed MG is like a well placed sniper, only more common and more capable of creating chaos.

 

[Nate]

Excellent to hear! I was thinkin the same think about the bren but I wasn't sure exactly so thanks for clearing that up VonMudra. Do we know yet if the mg42 will have a second man to carry ammo and handle the belt for the gunner? Although I am no expert I think the mg42 normally operated in two man teams one for the weapon and the other for spotting and handling the belt feed? If I am wrong please correct me.

It would be pretty cool for the mg42 to need a 2nd man to make sure it doesnt jam while firing as well as carry the extra ammo needed to hold down a position.

 

[VonMudra]

All MG teams employ a 2-3 man team (british/american was generally 2, german was 3). However, I know not, once again, if that would be at all possible, I don't think I've ever seen a game do that. It would be VERY cool though. Question is, who wants to volunteer to just spend the game holding down a key to feed ammo

 

[Nate]

Yeah that wouldn't really appeal to that many people but maybe instead an asst. gunner would just have extra ammo along with their own rifle. They would be able to fire their rifle and do what they wanted but if the main gunner needed more ammo then they would need the asst. gunner to reload for them or at least give them another belt. Obviously if the asst. gunner died then the main gunner could pick up the extra ammo but it would slow them down. Pretty much the two man duo would be to keep the mg mobile along with carrying enough ammo to hold down a position.

Maybe the Main Mg gunner gets 2 belts and the asst gunner gets 3. So if they are separated the main gunner still can fight off the enemy but if he really wants to hold a position for any length of time he will need an asst gunner. to help resupply ammo. Just a thought...

 

[Moody]

An MG42 burns through rounds very fast. If you give the MG gunner only 100 round belts, then maybe make it so that when the MG gunner reloads, the assistant can press the use key while looking at the MG gunner to speed up the reload. Also a resupply system like Nate said where the assistant carries plenty of extra ammo, and the gunner only has 1 or 2 belts.

Great to hear that MG's are getting the full treatment.

 

[VonMudra]

MG34/42 fed from 250 round belts, and rarely 75 round drums for assualt mode/shooting from a vehicle copula.

What I personally would like to see is each squad member carries some ammo. In german squads, each man carried a box or two of ammo, plus a belt or two over the neck, their pure job in the squad was to feed the MG, their rifle was purely for self defense or covering the MG when it changed position.

 

[Nate]

Speaking of how the german mg teams functioned can you shed some light VonMudra on how the brits used their mgs and how those mg teams would operate? I know very little about british infantry doctrines so I am curious as to how their composition would lend itself to the gameplay we will see in TW.

 

[VonMudra]

Similar to american. Eventually they started giving 2 brens per squad as an attempt to get closer to the fire output of the German squads. It was also common in british bren teams to use worn out barrels, as new ones were TOO accurate, a burst wouldn't drop a group, even at long range xD

Other than that, british bren gun teams were used in the same way as bar teams in american squads, just some added fire support. And it was about as successful (read: unsuccessful) as it was for american squads. The main difference was the value put on the Bren gun- there is a classic story where an entire squad was wiped out, one by one, crossing open ground to cover. The bren gunner was hit, so the man behind him picked up the bren, kept running, hit, etc, until the last survivor of the squad reached cover, with the Bren gun. The men were trained to save the Bren and keep it in battle at all costs, something very similar to german doctrine with the MG34/42.

 

[JinxSwe]

why not this?

 

[VonMudra]

Hahahahahha, funny, awesome, but no

 

[JinxSwe]

Hahahahahha, funny, awesome, but no

Well its to late. Activision has put a copyright on it for their next Call of Duty game Modern warspam. Players on their forums has complain that they want to be able to randomly bunnyhop and spray and pray with as mutch bullets as they can.

 

[calgoblin]

Activision has put a copyright on it for their next Call of Duty game Modern warspam. Players on their forums has complain that they want to be able to randomly bunnyhop and spray and pray with as mutch bullets as they can.

Thought that's what it was like already?

Saying that though, WaW had deployable bipods on some machine guns. Well, briefly, before they realised it made them ridiculously overpowered and patched them out. So as long as we don't do THAT

 

[_Franky_]

About that whole asst. gunner thing, what if you had certain strategic key spots where you have the ability to deploy the bipod and just hold that position. While one player is in that spot in a deployed position, the asst. gunner could help out on reloads and feeding the belt as well as keeping an eye out for opposition...

 

[Nate]

_Franky_ why wouldn't you just be able to do what you just said anywhere rather than just key strategic positions. Is there a technical reason why you wouldn't be able to just deploy anywhere and then have an asst. gunner reload and help man the machine gun? If its a scripting or engine issue then I understand that some things can not be done because of technical restrictions. But if it where possible I would personally prefer a more "open" option where you are limited to using specific strategic positions. If I misinterpreted your post then thats my fault and please correct me if I did.

 

[Maniche]

Well, a typical scenario for my time in the Army would be just like you said Frank; you had two persons (MG1 and MG2), which both had different tasks during moving, deployment, reloading and firing - the MG1 was the main gunner, carrying the MG itself and a pre-loaded belt (typical enough to fire for a few seconds whilst the MG2 would prepare a larger belt), and he would be the one to operate the gun. The MG2, however, would be the one to carry all the ammonution, help with reloading/fixing jams/reload the pipe and help with spotting enemies.

This system builds upon efficiency, as everyone know that you can operate a MG perfectly fine alone, but having two persons operate one drastically improves efficiency.

Maniche

 

[Nate]

Yeah I like the idea of making the asst. gunner crucial to an mg's ability to hold a location through ammo supply and actually working the mg. As you said one person could do fine but two is better... plus you have another gunner once the main gunner is sniped.

 

[VonMudra]

Main issue is, once again, who is going to want to play the No.2 gunner. Not many people would enjoy holding down the fire button to sit there feeding in ammo. We must make compromises where realism is just, well, not playable. Thus, you must more or less just imagine that any MG gunner is actually a 2 man team. Look to Forgotten Hope for this style, realism is maintained whilst not degrading playability.

 

[_Franky_]

Well, I was thinking if there is a benefit to deploying, you could direct the flow of a map better by having key locations where the weapon could be set up in a team without it becoming overpowering for the adversaries. A second team member would of course not have to be confined to just doing that one task, and it could encourage better team play based around holding and defending certain key positions that give a strategical advantage. Anyways, it was just an idea off the top of my head on how to possibly implement a scenario like that. :idea:

Basically in terms of game design, I thought it would be interesting to create points of interest that are worth fighting over. And this way, it would ensure that the backup is not confined to just being backup. If you could deploy any time, anywhere, the asst. gunner would effectively become what Mudra wants to avoid with this scenario

Anyways, I'm just brainstorming a little. I'm not even sure if it can be implemented or if we want anything like that. But it's always good to have explored the theoretical possibility and how to best go about doing something like that without feeling restrictive in any way.

 

[Moody]

Here's a possible compromise. The assistant gunner doesn't have to hold the belt to feed the MG, or assist with the reload. The assistant does however carry extra ammo, and when the assistant is within a certain radius of the MG, the MG gets a boost in reload speed, and maybe a tiny boost in recoil control.

This means the assistant can spot and shoot at enemies, but at the same time is heavily encouraged to be near the MG at all times. This need to be regrouped can be made more dire if you only give the MG one belt, and he has to constantly receive new ones to be able to reload, or if you think that's too punishing give the MG 2 belts so he can reload, but will run out of ammo soon if not regrouped. I think a system like that, or similar to that, would encourage the assistant to stick with the gunner, but still make the job fun.