Movable emplacements

[Aniallator]

Movable emplacements have been thrown around some, but we've never really discussed them... so here we go!

Ideally, we'd have two ways of moving an emplacement, by hand and by vehicle. Only smaller emplacements like the Flak 38 or Pak 36 would be movable by hand, and only trucks, or for example an Sdkfz 10, would be able to move an emplacement as a vehicle. For moving an emplacement by hand, four people would be required, three of whom allow the emplacement to actually move, and one of whom is the "driver", who controls the emplacement's movement. For moving an emplacement by vehicle, you should have to hook the two up by pressing whatever key when you're standing at the rear of the vehicle and next to the emplacement, not from the vehicle's driver seat.

Now, movable emplacements would be a Chapter Three thing, as they require some coding and a generous amount of animating. In the long run, however, I think it'd be cool; imagine your section pushing a Pak 36 up behind sandbags, or towing an 88 to the road leading to the objective. And if you look at the update about the 88, notice that there's a model of an 88 all folded up for towing...

So, yay or nay? And should we be able to move emplacements already on the map, or just designated ones at the spawn?

 

[Killen]

Movable emplacements have been thrown around some, but we've never really discussed them... so here we go!

Ideally, we'd have two ways of moving an emplacement, by hand and by vehicle. Only smaller emplacements like the Flak 38 or Pak 36 would be movable by hand, and only trucks, or for example an Sdkfz 10, would be able to move an emplacement as a vehicle. For moving an emplacement by hand, four people would be required, three of whom allow the emplacement to actually move, and one of whom is the "driver", who controls the emplacement's movement. For moving an emplacement by vehicle, you should have to hook the two up by pressing whatever key when you're standing at the rear of the vehicle and next to the emplacement, not from the vehicle's driver seat.

Now, movable emplacements would be a Chapter Three thing, as they require some coding and a generous amount of animating. In the long run, however, I think it'd be cool; imagine your section pushing a Pak 36 up behind sandbags, or towing an 88 to the road leading to the objective. And if you look at the update about the 88, notice that there's a model of an 88 all folded up for towing...

So, yay or nay? And should we be able to move emplacements already on the map, or just designated ones at the spawn?

For me, it's YAY! Maybe just 2 people could be needed to rotate the heaviest paks, either 3 could be needed to MOVE the heaviest paks around the map *.*

Four people are just too much to me

 

[Aniallator]

For me, it's YAY! Maybe just 2 people could be needed to rotate the heaviest paks, either 3 could be needed to MOVE the heaviest paks around the map *.*

Four people are just too much to me

Unless it's three bodybuilders that's unrealistic, as even Pak 36s were pretty heavy, so four guys would've been an average minimum to have any kind of speed. Plus, having four guys requires more teamwork, and I personally think it'd be more fun Of course, you wouldn't be able to move, say, a Pak 40 by hand. Way too heavy. I hadn't been thinking about rotating emplacements, but that's a good idea, and I can see that taking two guys!

 

[FlyingR]

Unless it's three bodybuilders that's unrealistic, as even Pak 36s were pretty heavy, so four guys would've been an average minimum to have any kind of speed. Plus, having four guys requires more teamwork, and I personally think it'd be more fun Of course, you wouldn't be able to move, say, a Pak 40 by hand. Way too heavy. I hadn't been thinking about rotating emplacements, but that's a good idea, and I can see that taking two guys!

Yay for all, especially rotating.

I think all artillery should be in the battlefield and not in the main base (unless of course that's how it was realistically) so it doesn't take too long to move them. If they are at main, there should definitely be jeeps or trucks to move them or else the battle will finish by the time they take the arti to the battlefield.

 

[Killen]

Unless it's three bodybuilders that's unrealistic, as even Pak 36s were pretty heavy, so four guys would've been an average minimum to have any kind of speed. Plus, having four guys requires more teamwork, and I personally think it'd be more fun Of course, you wouldn't be able to move, say, a Pak 40 by hand. Way too heavy. I hadn't been thinking about rotating emplacements, but that's a good idea, and I can see that taking two guys!

I think 3 guys are the perfect number, for the sake of the gameplay!

 

[Aniallator]

Yay for all, especially rotating.

I think all artillery should be in the battlefield and not in the main base (unless of course that's how it was realistically) so it doesn't take too long to move them. If they are at main, there should definitely be jeeps or trucks to move them or else the battle will finish by the time they take the arti to the battlefield.

Oh, I'm not saying all emplacements would spawn at main, I'm saying emplacements already on the map wouldn't be movable; the only movable ones would be a few that spawn at main. Should that be the case, or should all emplacements be movable?

@Francesco Boato look at BoB, when Easy company assaults Carentan; you see some Fallschirmjäger wheeling away a Pak 36, one guy holding the left leg, one guy holding the right leg, and two guys pushing the shield, one on either side of the barrel. When rotating, you have the same thing, minus the two guy pushing the shield.

Damn it, I just want to be able to tow an 88 in my Opel Blitz

 

[FlyingR]

Oh, I'm not saying all emplacements would spawn at main, I'm saying emplacements already on the map wouldn't be movable; the only movable ones would be a few that spawn at main. Should that be the case, or should all emplacements be movable?

@Francesco Boato look at BoB, when Easy company assaults Carentan; you see some Fallschirmjäger wheeling away a Pak 36, one guy holding the left leg, one guy holding the right leg, and two guys pushing the shield, one on either side of the barrel. When rotating, you have the same thing, minus the two guy pushing the shield.

Damn it, I just want to be able to tow an 88 in my Opel Blitz

I really don't mind either as long as it accurate and fun at the same time.

 

[Aniallator]

I really don't mind either as long as it accurate and fun at the same time.

I think make the emplacements already set up around the map, and perhaps one that spawns at main, all movable; it'd be a shame when retreating not to be able to take the AT gun you were mannign with you!

 

[Aniallator]

Moving an emplacement by vehicle requires a towing system, where the emplacement, when hooked up to a vehicle, moves based on the parent vehicle's movement, and whoes physics depend on the pivot from where the emplacement is linked to the parent vehicle's tow hook.

Well, it just occured to me that the Churchill Mk. VII Crocodile would require a towing system as well, because it uses an armored fuel trailer to hold the flamethrower's fuel. There's your incentive, devs

 

[drummer93]

Moving an emplacement by vehicle requires a towing system, where the emplacement, when hooked up to a vehicle, moves based on the parent vehicle's movement, and whoes physics depend on the pivot from where the emplacement is linked to the parent vehicle's tow hook.

Well, it just occured to me that the Churchill Mk. VII Crocodile would require a towing system as well, because it uses an armored fuel trailer to hold the flamethrower's fuel. There's your incentive, devs

I think that Cryengine is well prepared to support that kind of physics

 

[Aniallator]

I think that Cryengine is well prepared to support that kind of physics

WW2 Truck Simulator 2017

 

[Aniallator]

...

 

[SpaceCroissant]

Well... the trailer hook would get modeled regardless of the gameplay implementation.

 

[Aniallator]

Well... the trailer hook would get modeled regardless of the gameplay implementation.

Haha I know movability wasn't the intention when that was modelled, but nonetheless... a few years from now... Well, anything can happen!

 

[Aniallator]

When I suggested movable emplacements I was thinking about emplacements in terms of AA/AT guns like the Flak 38 and Pak 40, and playing FH2 the other day I realized that I totally spaced MG emplacements, namely Lafette-mounted MG34s/MG42s and the Vickers. In FH2, a US kit can be found around some spawn areas that features a tripod-mounted M1919A4; when using this kit, equipping the 1919 has your character hold its tripod. Left clicking sets the tripod on the ground with the 1919 on top, and it can then be entered like any other emplacement. However, where FH2 looks at the M1919A4 as a kit, I think TW should look at MG emplacements as what they are... emplacements.

So, let's say you're playing as the Brits, and you see a Vickers emplacement. Walking up to it and pressing the interact key would have your character remove the Vickers itself from the tripod and cradle the weapon in his arms. Ideally another player would then do the same for the tripod, and the two of you would move to the desired location. The player holding the tripod would then drop it by pressing the interact key again, the tripod facing the direction that player is facing. You, holding the Vickers, would then walk up to the tripod and press the interact key, setting the Vickers on the tripod and thus making it a functional emplacement again. While holding an MG emplacement component (the MG or the tripod), you would not be able to switch to another item in your inventory. If you want to switch to another item in your inventory, you have to press the interact key and drop the component first.

Of course, you wouldn't be able to fire a Vickers or MG34/MG42 from a Lafette mount while holding said weapon. Hence the Vickers should be held cradled in the arms, and MGs could be held like this.

 

[VonMudra]

As far as I am aware, FH2's system is basically what we already have had in mind for the tripod mounted guns, mortars, etc. Beyond that, an improvement I can think of would be a ghost icon so you can actually see where it is being set up.

 

[drummer93]

As far as I am aware, FH2's system is basically what we already have had in mind for the tripod mounted guns, mortars, etc. Beyond that, an improvement I can think of would be a ghost icon so you can actually see where it is being set up.

+1

ghost icon is a great idea. In other hand, do you have in mind heavy machine gun squads configuration?. I mean, talking about amount of soldiers and roles, similar to actual doctrines.

 

[FlyingR]

Instead of making them pick-up kits, why not just implement them directly into the roles? Maybe when you select weapons (1,2,3,4, etc.) you could switch between unmounted MG (maybe key #3) and mounted MG (key #4), meaning that to walk/move around or quick MG set-up you would have to press #3 and to mount the MG for a strategical position, press #4 key?

This would make things much more straight forward and getting rid of pick-up kits systems.

 

[Aniallator]

As far as I am aware, FH2's system is basically what we already have had in mind for the tripod mounted guns, mortars, etc.

On principle, I don't think one person should be able to move a full MG and tripod setup. As you know, moving that IRL meant breaking down the MG and the tripod and carrying them separately. An MG42 and a Lafette together weigh 70 pounds, and that doesn't even include ammunition. The Vickers and its tripod clock in at 65-80 pounds, and add to that a gallon of cooling water and however many 250-round boxes, which come in at 22 pounds apiece.

Now, all that said, pickup kits themselves make no sense to me... I think the only way you should be able to change your role is by respawning.

So, if tripod-mounted MGs are implemented as a one-man job, I agree with [MENTION=2433]FlyingR[/MENTION] that they should be a spawnable role. However, if they're two-man jobs as I think they should be, having a dedicated MG-carrying role and a dedicated tripod-carrying role makes no sense, and as things stand I'd like to be able to break down MG emplacements already on the map and not rely on spawned role ones, which brings me back to what I suggested in my post above.

Necessitating two people to quickly move and set up a tripod-mounted MG wouldn't be any more complicated, as you're still just picking up something then placing it down... it's just two people doing it rather than one. This also ensures that only coordinated players will use MG emplacements, as only coordinated players will be able to move them with any speed.

Beyond that, an improvement I can think of would be a ghost icon so you can actually see where it is being set up.

Excellent idea!

 

[VonMudra]

One needs to remember that you are representing a team. The tripod mounted MG's were generally operated by a crew of anywhere from 5 to 7 men, they were considered a part of company level firepower. So if you want realism, you're looking at one guy carrying the MG, another the tripod, another commanding the team, and 4 more guys carrying barrels/water (if water cooled), spare parts, and loads of ammunition. And, again, you're asking for one person to do nothing but carry around a tripod all day ingame- that'll kill gameplay.

Basically, realism is great, but at the end of the day, this is a game we're talking about.