Attachments on Weapons

[General Naga]

It should be more difficult to aim from the hip, but making the rifle itself less accurate is just a terrible idea...

How would you make it harder to aim if your not messing with the deviation? Rifle sway?

 

[monkwarrior]

How would you make it harder to aim if your not messing with the deviation? Rifle sway?

Yep, called free-aim.

 

[Bob_Bobber0]

I think this is an example of gameplay > realism.

I don't think its fun to have players running all over the place firing from the hip jumping around doing stupid stuff. Thus to limit this, making the rifle less accurate when firing from the hip seems to be the best option (even though its not the least bit realistic).

 

[General Naga]

There is one alternative to changing the deviation as monkwarrior rightly has pointed out. The video below is an example of free-aim.

http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/k63O6evkfJQaLgMRl9

 

[Bob_Bobber0]

I'm not sure whats going on here.. Can you explain what exactly "free aim" does? Does it make the weapon sway more fluid or something?

 

[General Naga]

When you move the mouse normally the whole view moves with the aim of the gun in the centre. With freeaim the aim roams as you move the camera. It could be described as having a "look" function in an FPS except your gun adjusts it's aim as you look away.

The result is that the point at which the gun is aiming is no-longer the centre of the screen unless you looking straight ahead. Implementation is complex though as you have to set thresholds for when the moving of the view stops causing freeaim and starts to cause the player to change direction.

BTW - that video is from CryEngine2 so it is possible although I don't think anyone has done it when the player can move yet.

 

[Bob_Bobber0]

Ahh, not bad. That would indeed make it much harder to aim without using sights and still keeps the realism aspect of it together. Now does it make looking around feel awkward and sluggish?

 

[General Naga]

Looking around no - moving around potentially yes. It would have to be carefully tested before we could be certain of it being effective and usable.

 

[Commisar]

Will there be crosshairs?
If not, I think thats motivation enough for players to use sights. In Far Cry 2 there aren't any but it's still *possible* to be quite a good marksman through practice. But the ironsights make it much easier.

Also, should attachments be unlocked or just distributed around maps to be picked up. I can imagine that might work for realism. Say the Red Armys march on Berlin (I'm not a historian, so forgive me if I get something terribly wrong) they outnumbered the German defenders 10-1. To represent this you could have more players assaigned to the russian team (probably not actual 10-1 outnumbering.. that would be cruel), but the German's would have acess to better equipment, i.e Attachments.

 

[Bob_Bobber0]

Haha, thats a neat idea to have realistic proportions of troops. Granted everyone would prolly want to be german and get all the cool weapons.

 

[Commisar]

Probably. But a decent player could just pick up weapons from dead enemies. As they captured forward points they would gain attachments, but for their weapons (representing ammo and equipment dumps.)

 

[Bob_Bobber0]

Very true. I'm not sure what kind of attachments they could have? What would you have in mind?

 

[Commisar]

Better scopes (Accurcy), Stocks (Recoil), Bayonets, Enlarged Magazines, Silencers and perhaps underslung grenade launchers?

 

[Bob_Bobber0]

Would be interesting, can any of these be founded in realism? I would be interested in them if they could have some kind of realistic basis to them.

 

[Commisar]

I'm sure there would have been bayonets, scopes, stocks and silencers.. Not too sure about the grenade lanunchers. Although the Germans were designing a gun to shoot around corners (From what I can find though it was never put into service, I included a picture).

Quirky, huh?

 

[Bob_Bobber0]

I think bayonets should be standard issue, not considered a "perk." Scopes are probably ok, but then you have to worry about balance, I don't think there should be more than maybe 1 or 2 snipers per team, maybe if we can find some kind of basis for assault scopes, like on the FG-42, they could be included?

 

[General Naga]

Afraid not apart from perhaps a bigger scope even then it's dubious as everyone was issued standard weaponry. The only ones with special scopes would have been those in special units and then everyone of their type would have had one...

Personally I think it's best just to have standard attachments which everyone gets and call it a day at that and sniper rifles get fixed scopes so they have to be used for anything apart from long-ranged sniping like they are meant for, otherwise I can imagine people taking them off and fighting normally thereby depriving others who would use it properly.

The problem with guns like the FG-42 is they were rare - personally I'd prefer to give players  experience of the average solider rather than of SS Bodyguards.

EDIT: Silencers/Suppressors weren't used much apart from on commando raids - even then I've only ever seen a Sten with one fixed.

 

[Nemesis-Xero]

Haha, thats a neat idea to have realistic proportions of troops. Granted everyone would prolly want to be german and get all the cool weapons.

  The germans don't have cool weapons. The russians however...

  Heh, I would agree with the silencers and suppressors. Besides, being stealthy is a lot more than sticking a silencer on your weapon. I can only think of a few weapons that had more than one style of stock and I'm not aware of very many that have extended magazines either.

  One thing about bayonets. Perhaps instead of making the bayonet a separate weapon, we could add a melee "secondary" attack to all the weapons and attaching the bayonet increases the damage of that attack? It's just a thought I was toying with. And I don't think I really responded to the "harder to aim with bayonet attached" thing. It would probably be a good idea. Something like added sway while aiming? And I was thinking about how to attach the bayonet as a Crysis attachment. I'll let you know when I get it more thought out.

 

[General Naga]

In an ideal world I'd like the bayonet as an attachment which when selected plays an animation. Then after being attached the melee attack while holding the weapon is changed so it deals more damage and it reaches further - but is slower than just punching someone.

The downside would be that you can't shoot as accurately.

It would also be good if we had some sort of way of parrying a bayonet attack as well if you've also got a bayonet fixed - that's advanced though and not for first release.

 

[Nemesis-Xero]

  That would be pretty sweet though. Cause then I could totally own with the bayonet even if someone else thinks they got me!  8)