• Welcome to the Vanguard Community

    These forums date back to the game's origins as the Crysis mod Traction Wars. Over the years the game and internet habits have evolved and discord.gg/vanguardww2 is now the principle home of the community.

    The team continue to read and reply to posts here, but we can be contacted more quickly on Discord.

Realistic suggestions!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Pjosip

Member
Vanguard Backer
Headshot blod effects would not neccesarely be for the shoote, but more of a effect for players surrounding the person who got headshoted.

Seeing that your teammate died from a headshot, represented by a peace of helmet*?*, blood and brains commig out of the back would indicate that the enemy has a skillful shooter and naturaly induce fear.

Unfortunately many of the stuff I listed here would be hard or impossible to see if you consider how fast the bullet travels, and simply making the animation to slow would be to unrealistic (and for me) even immersion breaking.

But I still think that with various tests (like the ones donewith HUD) a compromise could be found where it shows as uch details as possible, without having the feeling that time "slowed down".



As for radios it could be possible that you tune up to a certain frequency, and are able to hear incomming transmisions from same frequency aswell as broadcast a message (would require to kneel down and be stationary).
However, I am unsure of the practical usage of it, since players would rather choose teamspeak if they wish to communicate.

To "no kill message" I don't want the enemy to know if I died or simply took cover, completely immersion and realism breaking.


You should be able to throw back grenades, if you can find them.
No to picking up a grenade without even seeing it, the player would have to look down straight to the grenade (perhaps a certain radius around grenade but still fairly close to it) without a magicall message telling you that you have spotted a grenade, and oh yea did I mention grenades could be set so that colision for them always makes them slightly sunk in to ground and have foliage cover them?

So all in all you are better off running away if you noticed a grenade fly near you than trying to find out where it landed.


Reloading could possibly be done by having 3 animations and the system "counting" at wich animation it stopped.

Animation 1 would remove the clip and put the weapon in "no clip idle animation" for few sechonds while the player locates and optains the clip from his persona (irl you would tap a pocket to check if the clip is there, open the pocket, remove the clip from it and and only after doing all that you would put it in the gun).
After that animation number 2 would animate the player inserting the clip , if the animation was interrupted player could (if possible) drop that clip on the ground and restart.

Crouch sprint = no

You could move while crouching but sprinting would not be possible, you could have some sort of a hybrd of faster crouch walking but would simply require excessive animations and scripting.

As for regular running I have no intention running around like I have severe back problems, slightly beding down when running I would approve of but it would be more aye-candy that actually usefull to take some cover.


As for medics, how about a compromise;
A "medic bag" to be available as a form of a equipment, sacraficing ability to carry grenades and reducing ammo?
Same could be done for some other "equipment bags" for extra ammo, grenades and some special equipment.

Furthermore I disagree with bandages restoring your HP, perhaps slightly but if a soldier is wounded, he's wounded.
Compromise could be amde that limb shots reduce your HP and affect your running/walking/aiming ability, and bandages would partially restore your HP and said abilities (simulating that the bullet didn't deverely penetrate vital mussles and crush the bones but be more-less surface wound.


As for moans I do not wish to to have random sounds popping out to ndicate that I am wounded, not only it is imersion breaking but is very annoying.
However I would settle with my character expressing pain when performing some tasks that require strenght, like throwing a grenade or (I really don't know how to translate a word so I will explane what I mean) pulling the bolt in order toreload rifles that have heavy bolt (MG42?) and even than the sound would be subtle and implemented more for immersion rather to say "hey, i'm wounded".
In the other hand seeng a soldier who got hit move around and moain in pain and die shortly after would be a great effect.

About respawning, this is a tricky question.
Squad respawning = clan/team function, would simulate the size of a squad, but could only be possible if squad leader is faaaaar away from the enemy instead of being in actuall combat.
What I mean by that is lets say we have a squad that encountered a enemy, while they are having their gunfight you can't respawn on a your squad, but once the enemy has been defeated and gets more or less peacefull you could reinforce your squad.


This is all I could think of, also I would preffer having some sort of voice communication in game without ability to mute somebody, if somebody wants to call you a flippin brailess twat he can do so, but he might face some sort of a punishment later on.
 

calgoblin

Pathfinder Games
As for radios it could be possible that you tune up to a certain frequency, and are able to hear incomming transmisions from same frequency aswell as broadcast a message (would require to kneel down and be stationary).
However, I am unsure of the practical usage of it, since players would rather choose teamspeak if they wish to communicate.

Hmm realistic radio simulation... interesting. But yeah I think teamspeak would overrule it unfortunately.
 

General Naga

Director/Founder
Pathfinder Games
Lots of good ideas and points there :)

As for radios it could be possible that you tune up to a certain frequency, and are able to hear incomming transmisions from same frequency aswell as broadcast a message (would require to kneel down and be stationary).
However, I am unsure of the practical usage of it, since players would rather choose teamspeak if they wish to communicate.

You are absolutely right. On one hand you want to keep that game realistic but on the other if you make it too restricting then players will simply opt for using an third-party program. If you want all players using the in-game VOIP then you need to offer them something more than what TS/Mumble can offer and only then can you start squeezing the effectiveness of the system without loosing everyone onto private servers which spoils the fun for everyone else on that team.

Position audio is the most obvious "extra" in-game VOIP can offer but there are others.
 

Roughbeak

Member
I would prefer, for how less I use voip :p, simpler is the better. I am not sure if players would like external tools (e.g teamspeak mumble), although in FH2 or PR is not a problem. It has to be inside the game! ;)
 

General Naga

Director/Founder
Pathfinder Games
I would prefer, for how less I use voip :p, simpler is the better. I am not sure if players would like external tools (e.g teamspeak mumble), although in FH2 or PR is not a problem. It has to be inside the game! ;)

I'm the same I prefer in-game VOIP but it's a lot more fun if everyone else is using it as well :) Bear in mind regiments/clans will probably have a TS/Mumble server for pre-game chatter so we really need to dangle a carrot in from of them to get them to use our system rather than their own.
 

Duke

Member
Crouch sprint = no

You could move while crouching but sprinting would not be possible, you could have some sort of a hybrd of faster crouch walking but would simply require excessive animations and scripting.

As for regular running I have no intention running around like I have severe back problems, slightly beding down when running I would approve of but it would be more aye-candy that actually usefull to take some cover.

Here is what I meant exactly: as you said, not a crouch sprint but faster crouch movement, exactly!

34) Climbing vaulting cover - Like in Resistance and Liberation, useful, realistic and possible in CryEngine. Crysis 2 and 3 has it just a really fast version of it, or grabbing the ledges with a jump in TW it should be possible for us to climb like that, of course with weapons holstered! Please reply this is a really important thing.
 

Roughbeak

Member
I think one of the researchers said there will be a "ledge jump" or "wall climb", so there will be no normal jump. This fixes "bunny hoppers".

Some people may say this is outrageous, for me I could see this either way.
 
I have an idea for jumping:

- The first jump you take has no stamina penalty (for getting over small obstacles/jumping over trenches etc)
- Any jump within the next ~10 seconds has a stamina penalty

This alleviates bunny-hoppers but still gives you the freedom to jump over small piles of rubble etc.
 

Duke

Member
RnL devs solved this well, you can only jump if you are sprinting, you can not jump two times unless you sprint 4-6 more meters, 2 jumps make you totally exhausted. Also they have a diving jump which can be used to vault really low covers, but you can not turn in the air while diving. And they have 3 types of climb, low obstacle (fast vault), medium obstacle (a bit slower), high vault (takes a whole lot of time, but can climb over walls that are higher than the player) gun is automatically put away when these are done. Fixes bunny hoppers, realistic and versatile.
 

ctr2020

New Member
Suppression

On the subject of suppression rules, I think it would be a fantastic mechanic for the amount of suppression effects received to be based on how many squad members you have in your immediate vicinity. Any reason to promote teamwork is a good idea. I also like the idea of suppression gradually reducing as you increase in rank, makes sense as you would be more battle-hardened. Really like that - good stuff.

Smoke & particle effects

I haven't actually seen this mentioned yet, but in many games this is overlooked. I watch a lot of combat footage as well as having served on the front-lines myself and can tell you that the smoke and dust kicked up from even a small firefight with small arms is considerable. It is also one of the main observation points you look for, dust kickups giveaway enemy positions a lot more than most things, aside from tracer fire. It can also hinder your teams line of site. The dust in most games either from a round kick-up or from muzzle flashes should stay for a realistic amount of time and become of greater effect if more rounds are fired/in-coming. This would create more intensity, realism and tactical thinking.

Mumble

Works v.well in other tactical shooters. Local, squad and commander voice functions should be available.

Medics

I know you guys have said you are thinking about this but not sure on their effectiveness. I have to admit i have given this some good though and think that medics would be a great idea and should be implemented. Every squad in reality has a medic. If we are going for realism here we need to implement medics. The medics should have a separate class, armed with a rifle and medic kit. The game mechanics should be made so that a good medic should be topping scoreboards, points being awarded to them for effective heals, and also after healing a critical soldier i think they should get a share of that soldiers points from the point in which hes healed. I think this would be great as the medic could then see the fruits of his labor. That soldier might go on to kill 5 people of which the medic gets a share of the points accumulated from each kill.

Wounds/damage system/medical treatment
I think all infantry should be issued a light field dressing. This could be applied to treat themselves for minor wounds or to prolong a more serious wound until a medic arrives (slow bleeding out process). It should also be allowed to be applied to a teammate if needed. (promoting teamwork). Damage inflicted should be according to the calibrate of round and its trajectory coupled with where its entry on the body was. Ie, if you were hit in the shoulder but the round came from up high, this is obviously a kill shot, rather than if the round hit from the front - treatable. Again, rounds that maybe slowed via passing through a wall may be treatable. you get the picture. :)

Medics should be issued with a full medical kit which would be more effective at healing small wounds (quicker application, quicker regeneration of target soldiers hp) They can also fix up more serious injuries. More serious the injury the more time its going to take a medic longer to fix up said soldier. The effects should stack, so for example two medics working on one guy should double the time it takes to get him fixed up - again, promoting teamwork, means that an organised team would prioritize the wounded.

Medics should also be equip with morphine and epinephrine. These things could be used to temporarily get a downed soldier to his feet to get him out of danger to heal him. The effects should only last long enough to get him up and to cover and his movement will be slowed according to the status of his soldier. ( I was thinking this would replace a more complex stretcher or carry system, however...I do think all soldiers should be able to carry a wounded soldier if this could be implemented - great)

Injured or downed team mates status should be visible only to the medic class. A little symbol above there heads ranging from dull green, yellow, dull red to bright red should help medics differentiate between the minor and critical.

Few reasons why implementation of a dmg system/medic systems add to gameplay

1) It aids in teamwork
2) It adds immersion
3) it adds tactical elements - for example, cover fire/smoke for medics. Enemy snipers are trained to injure not kill (for the most part) in order to tempt more targets out (see scene in saving private ryan) Unless teamwork is used to cover downed soldier for a medic to get to him then that soldier will die.

Ricochets
Often over looked but should be implemented. Alot of injuries in war are actually from ricochets rather than direct hits. Can be fatal. but rare.

Respawns
Ever played darkest hour mod for red orchestra? Wave respawns work very well.

No kill cam/kill msgs
No and no. Kill messages adds so much to the game, it means that people don't know if they downed you so may feel it unsafe to break cover. It creates risk vs reward.
 
Last edited:

Prog

New Member
Suppression

On the subject of suppression rules, I think it would be a fantastic mechanic for the amount of suppression effects received to be based on how many squad members you have in your immediate vicinity. Any reason to promote teamwork is a good idea. I also like the idea of suppression gradually reducing as you increase in rank, makes sense as you would be more battle-hardened. Really like that - good stuff.

Smoke & particle effects

I haven't actually seen this mentioned yet, but in many games this is overlooked. I watch a lot of combat footage as well as having served on the front-lines myself and can tell you that the smoke and dust kicked up from even a small firefight with small arms is considerable. It is also one of the main observation points you look for, dust kickups giveaway enemy positions a lot more than most things, aside from tracer fire. It can also hinder your teams line of site. The dust in most games either from a round kick-up or from muzzle flashes should stay for a realistic amount of time and become of greater effect if more rounds are fired/in-coming. This would create more intensity, realism and tactical thinking.

Mumble

Works v.well in other tactical shooters. Local, squad and commander voice functions should be available.

Medics

I know you guys have said you are thinking about this but not sure on their effectiveness. I have to admit i have given this some good though and think that medics would be a great idea and should be implemented. Every squad in reality has a medic. If we are going for realism here we need to implement medics. For the most part, medics in ww2 were not targeted. Which brings me on to the below...

Wounds/damage system/medical treatment
I think all infantry should be issued a light field dressing. This could be applied to treat themselves for minor wounds or to prolong a more serious wound until a medic arrives (slow bleeding out process). It should also be allowed to be applied to a teammate if needed. (promoting teamwork). Damage inflicted should be according to the calibrate of round and its trajectory coupled with where its entry on the body was. Ie, if you were hit in the shoulder but the round came from up high, this is obviously a kill shot, rather than if the round hit from the front - treatable. Again, rounds that maybe slowed via passing through a wall may be treatable. you get the picture. :)

Medics should be issued with a full medical kit which would be more effective at healing small wounds (quicker application, quicker regeneration of target soldiers hp) They can also fix up more serious injuries. More serious the injury the more time its going to take a medic longer to fix up said soldier. The effects should stack, so for example two medics working on one guy should double the time it takes to get him fixed up - again, promoting teamwork, means that an organised team would prioritize the wounded.

Medics should also be equip with morphine and epinephrine. These things could be used to temporarily get a downed soldier to his feet to get him out of danger to heal him. The effects should only last long enough to get him up and to cover and his movement will be slowed according to the status of his soldier.

Injured or downed team mates status should be visible only to the medic class. A little symbol above there heads ranging from dull green, yellow, dull red to bright red should help medics differentiate between the minor and critical.

Few reasons why implementation of a dmg system/medic systems add to gameplay

1) It aids in teamwork
2) It adds immersion
3) it adds tactical elements - for example, cover fire/smoke for medics. Enemy snipers are trained to injure not kill (for the most part) in order to tempt more targets out (see scene in saving private ryan) Unless teamwork is used to cover downed soldier for a medic to get to him then that soldier will die.

Ricochets
Often over looked but should be implemented. Alot of injuries in war are actually from ricochets rather than direct hits. Can be fatal. but rare.

Respawns
Ever played darkest hour mod for red orchestra? Wave respawns work very well.

No kill cam/kill msgs
No and no. Kill messages adds so much to the game, it means that people don't know if they downed you so may feel it unsafe to break cover. It creates risk vs reward.

I like the idea of a medic, but that brings up the question what kind of damage system this game is going to use. Will it be something like the 1 2 3 system as in RO, and if you get shot in the leg or arm a medic can fully heal you agian?
 

ctr2020

New Member
I like the idea of a medic, but that brings up the question what kind of damage system this game is going to use. Will it be something like the 1 2 3 system as in RO, and if you get shot in the leg or arm a medic can fully heal you agian?


I think there should be lasting effects, ie shot in the leg should put you out of action but enable you to crawl, chance of fatal bleed out from artery hit 10% or something similar. Medics should be able to heal/stop your blood loss so you wouldn't be at full hp after the treatment, or rather your remaining hp would be dictated by how long the medic took to get to you and stop the blood lose. Negative effects after heal could be slower walking and decreased sprint duration or lower stamina.
 

Roughbeak

Member
Suppression
No kill cam/kill msgs
No and no. Kill messages adds so much to the game, it means that people don't know if they downed you so may feel it unsafe to break cover. It creates risk vs reward.

In regard to this, this does make sense, but I still like the idea of a "clean screen". What are the other options then? Well, when you kill someone, then possibly add "death cry"? :p
 

ctr2020

New Member
In regard to this, this does make sense, but I still like the idea of a "clean screen". What are the other options then? Well, when you kill someone, then possibly add "death cry"? :p

I to am a fan of a clear screen, if one were to want to know if you hit someone then you could perhaps implement a subtle audio sound. Maybe just combine the two, have no message and no audio but as you approach the downed soldier you should be able to hear his cries. This would be great for both teams as once you had a few men down around you you could hear their screams, for one alerting medics and two you'd get that real-time battle ambiance which would add so much.
 

Pvt_Larry

Member
I think there should be lasting effects, ie shot in the leg should put you out of action but enable you to crawl, chance of fatal bleed out from artery hit 10% or something similar. Medics should be able to heal/stop your blood loss so you wouldn't be at full hp after the treatment, or rather your remaining hp would be dictated by how long the medic took to get to you and stop the blood lose. Negative effects after heal could be slower walking and decreased sprint duration or lower stamina.

I'd say that being shot in an extremity is probably something that could be fixed using just the sort of field dressings you've mentioned, but would leave lasting effects; i.e. being shot in the leg may prevent running or at least reduce speed; being shot in the arm or shoulder will negatively effect accuracy (similar to suppression effects maybe). If a wound is more serious, such as a non-fatal gunshot or shrapnel wound to the torso, maybe medics could return the wounded player to a base or aid station and receive points for doing so?

As for kill messages; I don't care much either way. I like having my screen clear, but this sort of thing doesn't bother me. If they're added there should at least be a delay between the kill and the message displayed, so you have a bit of doubt. In any case, people have a tendency to be a little noisy after being shot.
 
Please dont make an Arma / Ironfront Clown = ultrarealistic and boring. (mouse menues, whole keyboard for game control and real time hours to find an enemy).
Please dont implement any character-improvement systems like WOT / General&Heroes. Every player should be as good as he is in front of his desktop. If he has played 2000h and has learned nothing than this noob should not get an bonus because of playtime.
 

VonMudra

Well-known member
Please dont make an Arma / Ironfront Clown = ultrarealistic and boring. (mouse menues, whole keyboard for game control and real time hours to find an enemy).
Please dont implement any character-improvement systems like WOT / General&Heroes. Every player should be as good as he is in front of his desktop. If he has played 2000h and has learned nothing than this noob should not get an bonus because of playtime.

We plan on neither of those, don't worry.
 

ctr2020

New Member
i agree with this. We need to keep it realistic but at the same time not make it like Arma. Im a big fan of ARMA, but its just so clunky and rubbish MP. Red orchestras Darkest hour mod is the best online realistic shooter iv played.
 
Regarding the Medic discussion, perhaps there could be a bonus for playing the medic, despite the small armament. Each team could have some point reduction for shooting a medic, Geneva Convention and all that.

Medics could gain points for their side for treating any wounded soldier with no regard for friends or enemies - Hippocratic oath etc. However, the other side wouldn't want them coming over to their lines and gaining points for treating their wounded, and feeding information about their positions, so would decide to take the points hit and shoot if a Medic overstepped the mark.

There could be end-of-round bonuses for 'humanity' if a medic treated wounded enemy soldiers in the match, so there'd be a trade-off between enraged squad mates shooting dead those they've just wounded as they advance on a position (gaining kill points) and leaving them for the medic to possibly increase the team's score overall.

In RO2, I enjoy playing as a squad leader, and am often at the top end of the table with no kills as it's satisfying enough hanging around the points, capturing, acting as the spawn point, spotting enemies and offering marks for artillery, avoiding combat for the team's benefit and the squad's. One doesn't have to be shooting at people to have a good time keeping one's head down! Support classes are often overlooked in that sense. I'd enjoy playing medic. ;-)

Re: the reload animation/reload status saving between weapon switches...perhaps an option to turn on "Receiver" style gun mechanics would make very tense games! Suppressed, your soldier fumbles with his rifles and because of your key-press mistake drops some cartridges on the ground, misses the bolt, drops the magazine etc. Then the enemy comes over the parapet, aims and...click! He's out. Hand-to-hand combat ensues.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top